Cuckoo Cleeves Closed

[whitelackington]

We know which caves (on Mendip) routinely suffer poor air - the main ones are, in no particular order: White Pit, Maesbury Swallet, Little Crapnell Swallet, Cuckoo Cleeves, Tynings Barrows Swallet and GB Cavern. What we do not know are the reason(s) causing this; however, for the first time we have access to accurate (!) testing devices and may be in a better position to begin pinpointing the cause(s) of poor air. The present debate, however, seems to focus on what to do once it is known that a site has poor air - should a sign simply inform people who then make up their own mind or should access control bodies/landowners be more proscriptive in their actions? - assuming the latter, how often do you test and what is the cut off line/time for reappraising any control(s) placed on the site.

Why limit yourself to a 100 year time frame, though? - surely it's just as easy to say that over the last couple of million years since people have been using caves we haven't figured out the definitive cause of poor air in any individual site and, presumably by extending the line, we therefore won't be able to do so for another x years?

Going off on a fantasy tangent might include high fencing, guard dogs, CCTV cameras, filling sites in with concrete, setting up machine gun nests etc..

Could it be that these caves have cattle above them?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Could it be that these caves have cattle above them?

In simple terms:- The source of the sinking CO2 is well established and is a combination of rotting vegitation and residual soil CO2. It is also associated with the growing season, July -September,  green plants respire 40% of the CO2 they aquire from the atmosphere into the soil via their roots, this production also increases with temperature.  The CO2 then sinks into the Ground and then into caves as it is heavier than air. It is also carried into caves dissolved in groundwater through fissures, It then degasses from solution upon reaching air/cave passage. If there is a stream in the cave much of it will be carried away by resolution into the stream water.  It seems fairly obvious that this is the reason for higher levels in the summer, a combination of the growing season and plants producing more CO2 due to higher temperatures and lower stream levels, dissolving less CO2 from the cave atmosphere than in the winter.

I think I remember Aubrey stating that no grazing had taken place near CC this year. If the gas built up over the summer through natural processes in the soil, and found its way into the cave, it will probably take a long time to dissipate if there is no large volume of water or air flowing through the cave to displace it.

All good soils contain a lot of organic matter, with or without grazing, so the presence of cattle is not necessarily that relevant. If we stripped all the soil off and dumped it somewhere else, perhaps?

There have been some very informative and helpful posts in this discussion, and links to more information. You should go back and read them again to increase your understanding of the matter.

 

[Aubrey]

CSCC web site:

http://cscc.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=news:start

The CO2 is decreasing because the outside temperature has dropped & vegetation has stopped growing.

 

[whitelackington]

If Cuckoo Cleaves suffers bad air and that bad air is caused by bovine waste
collecting in the cave's entrance hollow and dripping down to be consumed by bacteria, there may be a way to thwart it.
Extend the entrance pipe up and fill in the entrance hollow, 
mounding earth up like a mini Glastonbury Tor,
bovine waste may not then accumulate at the cave entrance.

 

[Aubrey]

If Cuckoo Cleaves suffers bad air and that bad air is caused by bovine waste
collecting in the cave's entrance hollow and dripping down to be consumed by bacteria, there may be a way to thwart it.
Extend the entrance pipe up and fill in the entrance hollow, 
mounding earth up like a mini Glastonbury Tor,
bovine waste may not then accumulate at the cave entrance.

WHAT are you talking about? - yours seems to be a pointless repeated post, particularly as there aren't any cows anywhere near the fenced off entrance to Cuckoo.
Perhaps you should visit the cave? 

 

[Elaine]

We did, we went there Monday. Air not too bad until you get to the smaller stuff at the bottom.

 

[whitelackington]

If Cuckoo Cleaves suffers bad air and that bad air is caused by bovine waste
collecting in the cave's entrance hollow and dripping down to be consumed by bacteria, there may be a way to thwart it.
Extend the entrance pipe up and fill in the entrance hollow, 
mounding earth up like a mini Glastonbury Tor,
bovine waste may not then accumulate at the cave entrance.

WHAT are you talking about? - yours seems to be a pointless repeated post, particularly as there are no cows anywhere near the fenced off entrance to Cuckoo.
Perhaps you should visit the cave?

I have just read my December 2009 A.C.G. Minutes,
they say that the entrance pipe at Cuckoo Cleeves is to be raised?
What do you suggest is causing the CO2?

 

[Aubrey]

Buy the latest Descent.

 

[whitelackington]

When was the first ever Cuckoo Cleeves  report of bad air?