Dan-yr-Ogof Warden Permits

[wormster]

Right time to stick my oar in 'ere:

I don't have any type of insurance, but I know a warden of D-y-O & I want to go there.

seems as if I have 5 options:

1, Join a club (NO LesW not the Wessex YET )
2, Get the DIM insurance through the BCA.
3, Blag a green card from somebody else.
4, Have a quiet word with the warden.
5, STHIL SAW THE LOCKS OFF - before y'all flame me its a JOKE. (I've been hanging round the valley FAR to long & know who's who)
6, Not bother, which is a pisser because I'd LURVE to go back and find THAT dry link................................which we know exisits.

Options 3-6 are a bit dogy, but on the other hand they all get me in without compromising my radical views on paying to cave beyond the trespass fees.

 

[NigR]

Nobody hates gates on caves more than me.

I detest unnecessary bureaucracy.

I agree that the BCA insurance scheme is a complete rip-off.

BUT......

Dan-yr-Ogof is a commercial showcave and we are fortunate to be able to go there at all. It has not always been this way and
may not always be so.

It is worth bearing in mind that Wardens are under no obligation to take anyone into the cave at any time. Personally, I am always very careful who I cave with and having read some of the nonsense spouted by one or two people on here I am going to be even more selective in future.

 

[graham]

I would agree with everything that NigR says (save pointing out that the BCA insurance scheme was/is the very best that our guys could get for us, the problems in it are not of any caver's making).

Bearing in mind what he says, of Wormster's options 3-6, 3 and 4 would require a warden to compromise the scheme, not sensible. 4 may be a joke but is not funny to anyone who has seen vandalised show caves.

That leaves 6. Live with it.

 

[wormster]

That leaves 6. Live with it.

Graham, at the moment option 6 is the one that I'm going for, but that's not to say that in the future options 1 or 2 might be put into action.

 

[Cave_Troll]

It seems to me perfectly reasonable that if you want to look around someone else's property you should comply with whatever conditions they want to set.
If this invovles being led by someone who is known by the owner and trusted to know the way, prevent damage etc, and also having proof of insurance so that if you trip over a visiting tourist, they can sue you and not me, Whats the problem?
Especially if , as is the case for Dany, you don't have to hand over huge wongas of cash to the showcave owner.

If you had an interest in stately homes and wanted to look around Chatsworth house, would you expect to be allowed in for free, wander where you like and pick up all those expensive china plates???

 

[cap n chris]

If you had an interest in stately homes and wanted to look around Chatsworth house, would you expect to be allowed in for free, wander where you like and pick up all those expensive china plates???

Depending on who answers, I expect you'll get plenty innocently responding "Yes".

 

[Tony_B]

Reluctant as I am to get drawn into some of the arguments that my original post seems to have started, it seems necessary to point out a few simple facts...

1. Dan-yr-Ogof is a commercial operation. As cavers we are extremely fortunate that Ashford Price and his staff are prepared to allow us access to this fine cave through the showcave because the simple, and most financially expedient, option would be to tell us all to go away. 

2. In insisting on Warden Permits and insurance, Dan-yr-Ogof Showcaves Ltd. is only doing what every other sensible business/landowner does nowadays. Sadly, whatever your views on this, it's the reality of the world we live in. In the course of my work I frequently have to ask permission to go onto other peoples' property to take photographs and in about 98% of cases the answer is 'no' because it's easier to say that than to go through all the hassle of inspecting liability insurance documents, completing risk assessments, issuing passes/hard hats/hi-vis jackets etc. that is insisted on by insurers and health-and-safety inspectors. No doubt Ashford's insurers would be delighted if he denied cavers access, and my guess is they've probably even told him to do so. That he hasn't done this before now is all the more remarkable given that some in the caving community have occasionally trodden - or even stamped - on his toes...I'm sure many of you are aware of these instances and this is not the forum to revisit old ground. Fortunately Ashford and his staff are very 'pro-caver' and he is happy for us to explore the cave beyond the showcave, provided a few simple conditions are met.

3. Anyone who wants a trip into DYO can get one. Most major clubs have at least one Warden in their ranks and in any case there are plenty of Wardens who are happy to take parties in. Some have ongoing projects in the cave and are glad of assistance! Apply to me through the DYO CAC website with reasonable notice and I'll sort someone out to take you. BCA insurance is all you need and this is hardly an unreasonable request. Also, the CAC is keen to recruit more Wardens, so anyone who has a good knowledge of the cave is welcome to apply for a permit. Again this can be done through the website but you need a recommendation from an existing Warden, and the fee is a tenner. Since this is now effectively a one-off charge it can hardly be said to be unreasonable; most of us spend more than that in the pub on a Saturday night. 

I will be happy to answer any sensible queries relating to DYO access.

Regards,
Tony.

 

[damian]

Brilliantly put, Tony_B - I think very few of us would disagree with a word of what you have said.

Personally, I have always felt that DYO access was by far the most freely given of all the country's showcaves.

 

[danthecavingman]

Anyone who has been to DYO beyond the Long Crawl will agree that whatever conditions there are for access, they are worth it because the cave is simply stunning.



I would pay my insurance just for one trip a year in there. Only my opinion....

Dan.

 

[anfieldman]

I just cannot understand your attitude DP. Why do you feel the need to argue about nearly everything posted on this forum? (To do with access).
There are rules and regulations to follow in caving if you wish to visit certain caves. If you want to visit them you follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules you can't visit them. Simple as that.

 

[NigR]

Having had a quick scan through this thread again, I have come across one ploy put forward as a means of getting around the current DYO access regulations:

3, Blag a green card from somebody else.

Might I suggest that any wardens taking parties in who they do not personally know henceforth ask for some form of photo ID as well as the green insurance card? This should not really be necessary but, sadly, it now appears that it is.