Deepest cave in England

[A_Northerner]

Uh oh. We have a problem.  Best give it to boulby potash mine.
When does a cave dig turn into a mine?  When it was done? Use of explosives? The reasons it?s been dug?  Do we just include entrances? 
Meregill it is then 

I'd say if explosives were used to enlarge a natural passage for exploration that's fair game. The system's depth has not been artificially altered by that.

Same with digging soil/stone fill out of a natural passage.

 

[Duck ditch]

That seems fair enough.  Otherwise mendips would only have 3 caves. :  So Charterhouse it is.  Your in luck too benshannon, Pete hall is willing to show you the way    is it a good trip?

 

[PeteHall]

is it a good trip?

A very fine trip by any standards 

I would allow 8 hours for a trip to the end, assuming that you don't look at anything off the main through route..

Definitely worth wearing a decent pair of knee pads as there is plenty of crawling 

 

[Pitlamp]

In case anyone's still pondering on the Maskhill to Giant's East Canal vertical range, I can confirm that East Canal is 24.5 m deep in dry conditions (i.e. when water level is at the level of the floor of the approach passage as you enter the East Canal chamber.

 

[Duck ditch]

I didn?t want to stifle debate  :-[. It?s so close one has to wonder about surveys.  Although this doesn?t apply probably with peak. Maskhill or Charterhouse. I remember a debate of where the cave began rather than the sump level.  I was wondering when the peakerites would challenge. 
Depth potential?.  I?m going with black keld, wharfedale.

 

[Tseralo]

Consulting the Peak/Speedwell 3D model, the Top of the Titan entrance shaft (and pretty much the top of the entrance shaft of JH) to the bottom of Main Rising, is 267m - which would make it deeper than the 3CS (if the 249m value on Wikipedia is to be believed). However both the Titan and JH entrance shafts are artificial, so it would seem wrong to count them - there are much much much deeper mines in the UK (1400m depth!!).

The very top of Titan, to the bottom of Main Rising is 237m - which would make it slightly shallower than the 3CS. The deepest you could do without diving would be 166m.

B

Sounds like it's time you got back down there with a shovel then, Derbyshire has a crown to claim!

Or stick Rob back into cliff hangar. If nettle was connected that would give 303.81m.

As for depth potential it's definitely in the peak as the limestone goes down quite a way but you will need more than a few cylinders to do it.

 

[Mark Wright]

Or stick Rob back into cliff hangar. If nettle was connected that would give 303.81m.

As for depth potential it's definitely in the peak as the limestone goes down quite a way but you will need more than a few cylinders to do it.

Does the 303.81m include the depth of Russet Well?

Mark

 

[A_Northerner]

In case anyone's still pondering on the Maskhill to Giant's East Canal vertical range, I can confirm that East Canal is 24.5 m deep in dry conditions (i.e. when water level is at the level of the floor of the approach passage as you enter the East Canal chamber.

After having placed/collected data loggers onthe level of East Canal during flood conditions I'd say that the depth could vary from as little as 24.5m in the dry as you say, to at least 40m, as one particular flood pulse increased the water level by something like 15m in a single night. It's an interesting 'little' canal as you say. I wonder if it's worth doing survey work to get a definitive depth on the Canal relative to the survey itself. I don't think the current file includes the depth.

 

[Tseralo]

That?s nettle entrance to the bottom of main rising.

I don?t think Russet Well is on the survex model but to swine hole would be 273.76m.


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[Mark Wright]

I've not been to the bottom of Russet Well since I was a teenager but I think it was about 24.5m deep. Maybe Pitlamp has a better idea.

 

[Andy Farrant]

The region with the greatest depth potential could easily be either the Peak District or the Mendip area, it just depends on how deep the sumps are. In both regions the limestone extends to much greater depths than in Yorkshire. Some of the sinks in the Cheddar catchment north of Wigmore are up around 280 m, and the resurgence at c. 27 m, so depth range of 250-260 m, but Sump 3 in Gough's is 55 m deep (base at c. 28 m below sea-level), giving an overall depth potential of 308 m, but could be more (Wookey 20 is 90 m deep). But hypogene systems could be deeper still. The conduit feeding the Bath hot springs could be as deep as 2500 m.... just depends if it is big enough to fit a diver. Same applies to Buxton or Matlock thermal springs, both could be deep systems.

 

[Tseralo]

I've not been to the bottom of Russet Well since I was a teenager but I think it was about 24.5m deep. Maybe Pitlamp has a better idea.

The sump index says 25m but what?s 0.5m between friends.

 

[Duck ditch]

Langcliffe Pot to black keld is around 270m. So not completely out of the mix.  A higher entrance to langcliffe could be found and I?m not sure how deep black keld goes down.  Not 30m I suppose.

I?m going to get into hot water but I?m dismissing Roman baths.   

 

[A_Northerner]

The conduit feeding the Bath hot springs could be as deep as 2500 m.... just depends if it is big enough to fit a diver. Same applies to Buxton or Matlock thermal springs, both could be deep systems.

I'll get my dowsing rods out 

 

[Fjell]

Should do some prospecting, never know what you will find. You can get open phreatic passage several metres in diameter at depths of over 4000m in some places in the Carboniferous. Def what you might call paleokarst though given there are Permian deposits on top. Passage that has not collapsed since. Pretty sound rock eh?

 

[Inferus]

Langcliffe Pot to black keld is around 270m. So not completely out of the mix.  A higher entrance to langcliffe could be found and I?m not sure how deep black keld goes down.  Not 30m I suppose.

The depth potential is similar in the Malham area, Kuling Hole (tested) to Malham Cove is (based on altitudes in NC2) 277m, not including sump depth at the risings (15m according to the book, I'm sure Pitlamp will no doubt have a more up to date depth,if it has gone deeper since that publication), also not including possible connection to Aire Head, which is lower still.

 

[Pitlamp]

From memory, the highest potential entrance up above Pikedaw, to the deepest point (-14 m) in the underwater cave system at the foot of the Cove is around 310 m. (Yes, I think you're right Inferus - Aire Head Springs are lower than the deepest currently known point in the underwater cave system at the Cove.)

Again, without looking it up, I think the depth in Black Keld gets down around the 20 m mark in the final long sump. (Alexchien could probably tell us more precisely.)

Doesn't the limestone go extremely deep below ground in the Greenhow area (due to the proximity of the Craven Fault zone), with theoretical potential for great depth in the phreatic zone? Langcliffe knows this area and its geology better than me

 

[pwhole]

Didn't the Eyam borehole in Horseshoe Quarry confirm 1200m of limestone there to a basement of 'some other stuff'? I'm away so can't consult my files but I'm sure it was close. Not that it guarantees cave passage of course but it's a hell of a depth.

 

[benshannon]

As ever in these discussions, it would help to know what the OP had in mind.

Yes this is the idea I had in my head 😁

I'm guessing something like highest peak and deepest cave in 24 hours.

If Charterhouse fits the bill for deepest (as in most vertical range without diving), I'd be happy to lead a trip to the end, with a few caveats, like the cave being open again...

 

[benshannon]

This has been a really interesting thread to read. Lots of knowledge 😁 so the concensus is charthouse then.