Digging question...

[Goydenman]

My first post so forgive me if I make any mistake.
When I was in Derbyshire (many years ago!) I dug Black Rabbit cave and made quite an extension but don't think I wrote up the find  :chair: Just after the second squeeze there is a stall grotto to the right. I entered a bedding here. Realy pretty and pushed it quite some way through three really tight squeezes especially the last. Amazing looking back that I used to solo dig it Finally I was struggling to chisel the floor to get through to a small sit up chamber. Invited Richard Gibson to come along with me and he got through and said way on would require digging. Dig abandoned and never recovered my tools. The interesting thing it was heading up the dale parallel with Pindale cave. May be worth you checking it out.

 

[SamT]

Had a quick look into the quarry as we were passing today -

moved two boulders and 700 meters later we were in Peak main stream way - exited peak and in the Nags head for lunch time having discovered some of the best decorated stream way in the peak.

Only joking.

Stuck my head in for about 10 feet - looks like a goer dan - keep at it. if you could organise a geny in the bit to the left just in the entrance with an exhaust pipe to take the fumes just out the entrance you'd be well set up. I wouldnt want to leave a geny in the quarry - it would soon end up on the back of someones landrover.

Cant help but think that you might run into the really old workings on the rake though.

Was funny seeing the entrance on the left. Brought back some memories. I remember dad saying that the quarry had bulldozed the entrance at the time but the diggers had dug back in which is when we went in. Spoke to Keith Joule today and he confirmed that. They had installed a railway to remove digging spoil. The quarry took umberance to this (thought they were mining for comercial gain) and bulldozed the entrance. Much to the diggers dismay.

 

[martinr]

Apparently there's some really important plant grows in the quarry, some thingy bog wurt weed thing, that had to be saved at the cost of humans having fun.  I've not got the details to hand but I can root them out for you.

LOL  

 

[whitelackington]

I took my daughter in the car with a two person canoe to Little Frencham pond , I think it is in Hampshire, i had canoed their as a child, just as we were launching our vessel, some warden came over and had a go at me, apparently, we could no longer canoe there, wait for it.
IT MIGHT UPSET THE FUCKING DUCKS!

 

[whitelackington]

Fast forward a dozzen years.
What's our big problem now,
widelife, NO
FAT IDLE CHILDREN WHO WILL NOT OR ARE NOT LET TO HAVE INNOCENT FUN WITH EXERCISE :idea:

 

[AndyF]

Apparently there's some really important plant grows in the quarry, some thingy bog wurt weed thing, that had to be saved at the cost of humans having fun.  I've not got the details to hand but I can root them out for you.

There is the similar story at Lumb Hole, some unique moss or something so digging not allowed....... shame as there is a couple of great dig sites in the cave. I'm a bit suspicious of the claim....

 

[Peter Burgess]

There's a site in Surrey with good prospects, but we can't do any work there because of rare mosses. I also wonder if there are other reasons, but you have to go with the stated position, until the situation changes. If you enter into an open dialogue with the owners or custodians of a site, and then ignore their request not to do anything, what message does this send them?

 

[Peter Burgess]

This is more relevant to the original post, perhaps.

Our experience is that we have achieved far, far more in opening up and securing access to sites since we have been open about our activities with owners etc, than in previous years (many years ago) when what some cavers did was more akin to skulking around trying not to be noticed.

 

[paul]

I took my daughter in the car with a two person canoe to Little Frencham pond , I think it is in Hampshire, i had canoed their as a child, just as we were launching our vessel, some warden came over and had a go at me, apparently, we could no longer canoe there, wait for it.
IT MIGHT UPSET THE FUCKING DUCKS!

Must be the mating season...

 

[Iain Barker]

Hey-up.

Regarding the rare plants at Lumb Hole; they do exist, trust me! This doesn't mean it can't be dug though, just that you have to get the neccesary permission to do it.
While I'm on - whatever you do youth, don't leave any tackle in Pindale, it WILL walk. However, if you call at pindale farm and ask Alan Medhurst nicely, he might let you store a bit of gear at his spot.

Good luck with the dig, it's a promising one.

 

[AndyF]

Regarding the rare plants at Lumb Hole; they do exist, trust me! This doesn't mean it can't be dug though, just that you have to get the neccesary permission to do it.

I did try a few years ago and got told "no", but sometimes folk change places. I may ask again.....but I won't dig without permission

 

[SLP]

Our experience is that we have achieved far, far more in opening up and securing access to sites since we have been open about our activities with owners etc, than in previous years (many years ago) when what some cavers did was more akin to skulking around trying not to be noticed.

Generally I'd go along with this but getting permission at sites like this is always a tricky one and requires a good combination of ground work, local knowledge, tact, diplomacy and arm twisting. Landowners are usually the most accommodating part of the equation, it's the self appointed clip board and ticky box mob that can be the hardest to get past.  It also depends on the site, weighing up the likelihood of getting permission vs. the repercussions if you don't and get noticed.  Sidetrack Cave is a good example, if permission had been sought to dig this site, it's likely it would have been denied resulting in the cave not being discovered for many years if at all.  I guess we're all barking up the same tree so it's down to the team involved to agree on the tac they want to take based upon their judgement and what they know.

If anyone's interested here's one of the signs the PDNPA put up in 2005.
http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/misc/pindale_sign_med.jpg

 

[AndyF]

Our experience is that we have achieved far, far more in opening up and securing access to sites since we have been open about our activities with owners etc, than in previous years (many years ago) when what some cavers did was more akin to skulking around trying not to be noticed.

Generally I'd go along with this but getting permission at sites like this is always a tricky one and requires a good combination of ground work, local knowledge, tact, diplomacy and arm twisting. Landowners are usually the most accommodating part of the equation, it's the self appointed clip board and ticky box mob that can be the hardest to get past.  It also depends on the site, weighing up the likelihood of getting permission vs. the repercussions if you don't and get noticed.  Sidetrack Cave is a good example, if permission had been sought to dig this site, it's likely it would have been denied resulting in the cave not being discovered for many years if at all.  I guess we're all barking up the same tree so it's down to the team involved to agree on the tac they want to take based upon their judgement and what they know.

If anyone's interested here's one of the signs the PDNPA put up in 2005.
http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/misc/pindale_sign_med.jpg

I agree broadly, and I'd have to confess to some naughtiness in the past  :halo:

...but with a site like this on English Nature land, the consequences are fairly minor for me ( probably a good b*****king at worst), but could esily get a "National Policy" sort of reaction to illicit digging, so I won't go there. Got plenty of other things on the go to keep me busy! English nature are good peeps, and quite co-operative and understanding if you get the right guys.

It's sometimes though, a waiting game, maybe years, for the the right opportunity to arise at a site. I'll wait for the right conditions...

 

[danthecavingman]

Had a couple of trips over the last two days.

Sunday was disappointing, the rain had turned the last 20 feet of passage into a six inch deep lake and then we had drill failure so not much done.

Went out again last night with some hose to siphon the lake only to find it had vanished! The two rocks were dealt with and now need dragging out and digging forward can continue on Wednesday. Good news is a definite draught was detected last night.

Anyone fancy a dig on Weds evening if I can't get any of my usual crowd?

I should add on the access front I had a chat with someone in the know last night - they suggested just keep digging - there shouldn't be any problems and if there were they could be sorted fairly immediately.

Dan.

 

[Pipster]

Hi Dan,

Are you talking about regular wednesday night digs? I'd definetly be up for helping with a digging project. What sort of digging/caving experience would you be looking for? I've no previous digging experience, and compared to most (99%!?)  people on the board don't have a great deal of caving experience.

In the Peak I've done Giants entrance series twice, P8, some of Bagshawe, Carlswark, Merlins, Great Masson and Jug Holes lower series. I've also done a very "sporty" trip through the Mangapu Cave streamway (aka "Lost World 7hr Epic") in New Zealand with a 100m abseil into the system, aswell as another 2 or 3 caves in NZ, and a very easy trip through Honeycomb Cave in Tasmania.

I'm currently in Thailand but will be back home on the 29th of Jan.

I'm really keen to get involved in a digging project, as well as obviously doing some more caving as soon as I get back from my travels! If you think there is anything I can help with I'd be more than happy to.

 

[SLP]

I'm currently in Thailand but will be back home on the 29th of Jan.

?? You're in Thailand..... and you want to go digging in Pindale cave??  I've been in Pindale Cave, and I've been to Thailand....  I should stay where you are.  It's current;y 4'C here and chucking it down, and Pindale cave is full of mud.

 

[SamT]

Nah - get diggin 

 

[SLP]

Sam.... I do wonder about you sometimes :-\ 2155 posts?? At least I have a valid excuse for being here.....
http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/shaun/20070111005-web.jpg

 

[SamT]

Ah - though it was you.

Dont tell anyone - but Im at work  :spank:

Night shift 

Not the easiest day to sleep with the wind doing its best to take my roof off. Hows the shoulder coming on.

 

[SLP]

In a word.... rubbish.... but at least it was my shoulder and not my head, which landed about three micro seconds later.  Seeing as you're at work I'll let you off and take back my previous comment.....