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Doing titan soon any thoughts on my SRT kit

It looks as if your main harness krab, that your simple, cowstails and chest ascender are attached to, is an ordinary screwgate. They are only intended to be loaded along their length, not across their width. You should have a D shape one such as a Petzl Omni or a D maillon that's designed to take a cross load.
There is a video that I'm sure someone will be able to link to, showing how easy it is to break a mis-loaded carabiner gate with just your body weight. That could easily happen the way the ventral carabiner is configured in the photograph.


I don’t think this is true, it would be great if you could point me in the direction of any documentation that confirms this?

I think you’re confusing the idea of an energy absorbing lanyard and these things
I used to use a Spelegyca and they are just a double thickness, stitched webbing tape. They aren't for falling on.

Many years ago Troll manufactured a similar lanyard that IRC was stitched in such a way that if there was a significant dynamic load applied some of the stitches would fail, offering some energy absorption, and then the previous twin leg lanyard would turn into a round sling. I remember them being a bit controversial in the rope access industry which wouldn't entertain anything other than a dynamic rope cow's tail. Troll's argument was that you shouldn't be putting yourself in a position where a fall could occur, which is absolutely correct.


Ive used a sling as cows tails as a fresher forgot theres so gave them mine. We werent doing anything massively technicaly or hard but i sepnt a good while swinging round and did take a small slip on them and they were fine. Apart from not doing the knots correctly so they were accedently adjustable id use them again if i needed to
Block Hall in Speedwell was climbed using a 1.2m steel chain with the links large enough to easily accommodate a carabiner and the chain configured as a long and short cow's tail off the central D M/R. Each chain link gave you about 30mm of cow's tail length adjustment, which was brilliant on a big vertical aid climb. I was doing some of the life-lining for the climb and was also the mug who had to carry their cow's tails through Treasury Sump and then all the way up the lower Speedwell Streamway. They went through the Windtunnel carrying nothing.

Unfortunately, Petzl's Connect Adjust lanyards weren't invented in the 80's.


Looks sound only thing id Sugest is untwisting your cows tails may affect there strength 😂
I'd be inclined to put a few more twists in those webbing sling cow's tails, it may give you some energy absorption.
 
There is a video that I'm sure someone will be able to link to, showing how easy it is to break a mis-loaded carabiner gate with just your body weight.

I don't have a link to a video, but I was present decades ago at the BMC offices in Manchester when Neville McMillan demonstrated this effect. He didn't even have to simulate a fall, he just put his foot in the loop of a sling and stood in it.

I do have a link, however to his paper. Well worth a read, quite a detective story: "Abseiler found dead below bridge" - how?

 
... ...Unfortunately, Petzl's Connect Adjust lanyards weren't invented in the 80's... ...
An odd choice to use chains? nylon daisychains and fifi hooks were all the rage back then for that sort of thing - people still do! I lent someone a fifi hook and daisychain and microtraxion to use last year and it worked for him! (pleasing symmetry to this thread: it was for a route on the Fisher tower "The Titan". The lucky *****!!!!) but sounds like the chains worked even if an unusual tactic!

I wouldn't like to fall on the Spelegyca, I have one and took another look (last used in December last year, I hate it) but those bar tacks look so flimsy I wouldn't be surprised if they break and it became a big sling loop, but also it doesn't look easy to break, I just can't tell by looking at it if it is just flimsy or clever design. I wouldn't like to test that, rope is probably better.
 
An odd choice to use chains? nylon daisychains and fifi hooks were all the rage back then for that sort of thing - people still do! I lent someone a fifi hook and daisychain and microtraxion to use last year and it worked for him! (pleasing symmetry to this thread: it was for a route on the Fisher tower "The Titan". The lucky *****!!!!) but sounds like the chains worked even if an unusual tactic!
We certainly thought it was an odd choice when they pulled them out of the tackle bag. Ian Haughton (SUSS) and Pete Bolt had been trialling the method in Wales and raved about it. It certainly worked. They were hand drilling the anchors so it was a very slow and cold process.
 
That would explain it - "Bent-gate steel carabiners designed for intensive use in climbing gyms." With an aluminium gate
 
I've used my dyneema donkey di... I mean bag tether (which has a pair of twistlock carabiners on) as cowstails before :P (I think it was for the OFD1 bolt traverse). But I am fully aware that falling onto them will have about the same energy absorption as steel cable. I use proper rope for cowstails for proper things.

The Petzl guidance on the Spelegyca (now that's hard to spell) is pretty straightforward.
'This product must only be used by competent and responsible persons, or those placed under the direct and visual control of a competent and responsible person. You are responsible for your actions, your decisions and your safety and you assume the consequences of same. If you are not able, or not in a position to assume this responsibility, or if you do not fully understand the Instructions for Use, do not use this equipment.'

'- This lanyard is not an energy absorber. Not for use in via ferrata, or any other similar situation.'

1721290960194.png
 
All that said, if this is a troll post, then it gets a Must Try Harder from me. 2/10 for effort.

That harness is relatively new.
Chest harness is irrelevant to safety.
Croll is metalwork so potentially fine if not too worn.
Simple is metalwork so potentially fine if not too worn.
Braking carabiner is probably fine and relatively new.
Chest ascender is metal so potentially fine if not too worn.
Hand ascender is metal so potentially fine if not too worn, and isn't that old a model anyway.
Snapgate for connecting a hand jammer is acceptable, and it's quite a new one.
Using a tape sling for hand jammer not ideal, but most of the time the rope you are attached to will provide absorption. Tape sling is probably out of date though.
Footloop is irrelevant for safety and probably not that old.

So basically only issues really are using a normal D-ring for a central maillon (which I did once with an oval when someone forgot their central maillon and we only discovered this at the end of a big long walk; I did rig up some backups with dyneema though so was only really relying on the carabiner for the Croll), and some quirky cowstails. Honestly those cowstails are probably better for many things than a lot of caver's knackered rope cowstails with the core showing.

Those cowstails would probably be safe enough for doing Titan since there isn't really that much chance of falling onto them... and the odds of exceeding the 9kN cross-load strength on a DMM Aero are pretty low (remember the strength of a Petzl Omni is only 15kN in that orientation after all!). The really dangerous thing to do to carabiners is loading the gate or the nose, which isn't what's happening here (it's exactly the same loading as an Omni).

I'd guess this is someone who hasn't been caving long enough to have much actually out of date gear :p I'd want a purple Petzl harness at the minimum, a Croll that still has the 'oil' markings, some screwgates that don't have a stop in the gate, and a Stop/Simple with a metal catch (although all of those are before my time).
 
View attachment 19718I’m doing titan for the first time soon and decided to finally put my own SRT kit together for it. I know titans big and my gears not perfect. Any suggestions would appreciated and Ik my breaking crabs rusty :))
Taking this at face value and given the comments made about the suitability of various items in the rig. Can you do a hanging rebelay, where there is no rock to put your feet to give you a leg up, as it were, when changing from one rope to another? Titan has one of these and it has been the site of several rescues, as well as epics without number, where people can't manage it. Situated below the Event Horizon, for the last drop to the floor. You are basically on your own there. Advice, or help from some one else on how to get past it is hard to give. Titan, being the biggest highest, deepest etc. is a magnet for people who only occasionally do caving style SRT, or are relatively new to the whole subject. It requires the proper gear, set up in the usual caving style and you need to be fully competent in its use. The way the anchors are placed is based around working with the usual SRT rig set up, so deviate too much and you'll find it hard work. The place can show up any deficiencies in gear, or technique.
 
All that said, if this is a troll post, then it gets a Must Try Harder from me. 2/10 for effort.

That harness is relatively new.
Chest harness is irrelevant to safety.
Croll is metalwork so potentially fine if not too worn.
Simple is metalwork so potentially fine if not too worn.
Braking carabiner is probably fine and relatively new.
Chest ascender is metal so potentially fine if not too worn.
Hand ascender is metal so potentially fine if not too worn, and isn't that old a model anyway.
Snapgate for connecting a hand jammer is acceptable, and it's quite a new one.
Using a tape sling for hand jammer not ideal, but most of the time the rope you are attached to will provide absorption. Tape sling is probably out of date though.
Footloop is irrelevant for safety and probably not that old.

So basically only issues really are using a normal D-ring for a central maillon (which I did once with an oval when someone forgot their central maillon and we only discovered this at the end of a big long walk; I did rig up some backups with dyneema though so was only really relying on the carabiner for the Croll), and some quirky cowstails. Honestly those cowstails are probably better for many things than a lot of caver's knackered rope cowstails with the core showing.

Those cowstails would probably be safe enough for doing Titan since there isn't really that much chance of falling onto them... and the odds of exceeding the 9kN cross-load strength on a DMM Aero are pretty low (remember the strength of a Petzl Omni is only 15kN in that orientation after all!). The really dangerous thing to do to carabiners is loading the gate or the nose, which isn't what's happening here (it's exactly the same loading as an Omni).

I'd guess this is someone who hasn't been caving long enough to have much actually out of date gear :p I'd want a purple Petzl harness at the minimum, a Croll that still has the 'oil' markings, some screwgates that don't have a stop in the gate, and a Stop/Simple with a metal catch (although all of those are before my time).
The sling for my Handjammer is very new and the simple is quite new too, all the metal work isnt worn too much and the ascenders have teeth ( i think). but everything bar the hand jammer sling and simple are all second hand :)
Edit: i can provide photos of the kit if u want to try date it
 
Taking this at face value and given the comments made about the suitability of various items in the rig. Can you do a hanging rebelay, where there is no rock to put your feet to give you a leg up, as it were, when changing from one rope to another? Titan has one of these and it has been the site of several rescues, as well as epics without number, where people can't manage it. Situated below the Event Horizon, for the last drop to the floor. You are basically on your own there. Advice, or help from some one else on how to get past it is hard to give. Titan, being the biggest highest, deepest etc. is a magnet for people who only occasionally do caving style SRT, or are relatively new to the whole subject. It requires the proper gear, set up in the usual caving style and you need to be fully competent in its use. The way the anchors are placed is based around working with the usual SRT rig set up, so deviate too much and you'll find it hard work. The place can show up any deficiencies in gear, or technique.
I find this really surprising. Intimidating, yes, but unusual, no.
 
The sling for my Handjammer is very new and the simple is quite new too, all the metal work isnt worn too much and the ascenders have teeth ( i think). but everything bar the hand jammer sling and simple are all second hand :)
Edit: i can provide photos of the kit if u want to try date it
I second what's been said - go for some dynamic rope for your cowstails and don't tie them together near the krabs, as you have done by the looks of it, and swap your central krab for what has already been suggested.

I prefer a Raumer Handy for braking with a Simple, but if you like what you've got then that's fine.

Hope it goes well :)
 
I'm honestly not sure about the wisdom of a snapgate on the hand jammer - it may be OK in small caves with easy access, or where your mate can easily get another one to you, but if you drop that whilst halfway up a Titan pitch you're screwed. And as wellyjen pointed out, the Event Horizon rebelay is definitely not a practice site. Can you do hanging rebelays?
 
I'm honestly not sure about the wisdom of a snapgate on the hand jammer - it may be OK in small caves with easy access, or where your mate can easily get another one to you, but if you drop that whilst halfway up a Titan pitch you're screwed. And as wellyjen pointed out, the Event Horizon rebelay is definitely not a practice site. Can you do hanging rebelays?
Yes i can, ive done them in caves with a borrowed srt kit and practiced them a lot out of caves :)
 
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