Doing titan soon any thoughts on my SRT kit

[Ian Ball]

Have a good trip

Are you coming back out Titan? If so I'd like a foot jammer

 

[andrewmcleod]

The sling for my Handjammer is very new

Who makes slings with patterns on these days?

You only need a £9 central maillon* and £6.60 worth of cowstails to turn that into a (potentially) safe SRT kit (I'd add £3.60 of safety cord personally but you don't need it if going 'Alpine style'). Obviously all the kits wants careful inspection by a competent person before use. Also obviously you need to use the screwgate on the Simple.

*you may find you can't get a steel D-ring into the small harness loops on the Aven harness, in which case you would need a £24 Omni which would push the budget up a bit.

 

[PeteHall]

unfortunately no

Honestly, if this whole thread isn't a wind-up, and you really can't afford to kit yourself out properly, I'll give you an old D-ring, some dynamic rope and a couple of screwgate carabiners on the condition that you buy a new harness.

Some things in life really aren't worth skimping on and if you're planning to dangle your arse over a 100m+ drop, at least make sure you're confident in your kit.

That said, I'm struggling to see how it isn't a wind-up. So much wrong with the pictured kit. Been borrowing kit and doing out of cave SRT training, but asks random people on the Internet for advice, based on one crappy photo and planning the largest vertical drop in the country, instead of taking it along to a training session, trying it out and asking fellow cavers there and then for advice. If this is genuine, I'll eat my compressed cardboard caving helmet!

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

Honestly, if this whole thread isn't a wind-up, and you really can't afford to kit yourself out properly, I'll give you an old D-ring, some dynamic rope and a couple of screwgate carabiners on the condition that you buy a new harness.

Some things in life really aren't worth skimping on and if you're planning to dangle your arse over a 100m+ drop, at least make sure you're confident in your kit.

That said, I'm struggling to see how it isn't a wind-up. So much wrong with the pictured kit. Been borrowing kit and doing out of cave SRT training, but asks random people on the Internet for advice, based on one crappy photo and planning the largest vertical drop in the country, instead of taking it along to a training session, trying it out and asking fellow cavers there and then for advice. If this is genuine, I'll eat my compressed cardboard caving helmet!

whats wrong with my harness i know people dont like most of my crabs but i only recently got it (second hand) but its got minimal wear and in good condition, pretty sure its a petzl one too.

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

Have a good trip

Are you coming back out Titan? If so I'd like a foot jammer

not sure we may be bouncing it but not a 100% on the plan yet

 

[Spaniel on crack]

Who makes slings with patterns on these days?

You only need a £9 central maillon* and £6.60 worth of cowstails to turn that into a (potentially) safe SRT kit (I'd add £3.60 of safety cord personally but you don't need it if going 'Alpine style'). Obviously all the kits wants careful inspection by a competent person before use. Also obviously you need to use the screwgate on the Simple.

*you may find you can't get a steel D-ring into the small harness loops on the Aven harness, in which case you would need a £24 Omni which would push the budget up a bit.

I got the same sling from Tony last year at hideen earth

 

[Alex]

I've used my dyneema donkey di... I mean bag tether (which has a pair of twistlock carabiners on) as cowstails before (I think it was for the OFD1 bolt traverse). But I am fully aware that falling onto them will have about the same energy absorption as steel cable. I use proper rope for cowstails for proper things.

The Petzl guidance on the Spelegyca (now that's hard to spell) is pretty straightforward.
'This product must only be used by competent and responsible persons, or those placed under the direct and visual control of a competent and responsible person. You are responsible for your actions, your decisions and your safety and you assume the consequences of same. If you are not able, or not in a position to assume this responsibility, or if you do not fully understand the Instructions for Use, do not use this equipment.'

'- This lanyard is not an energy absorber. Not for use in via ferrata, or any other similar situation.'

View attachment 19724

True but I think that's the big difference is on a via-ferra you are falling on a steel cable, where as in caves you are falling onto dynamic rope, i.e. the traverse rope, so even if your lanyards are not dynamic, the rope is. So unless you clip into the anchors on traverses there is still quite a bit of slack in the system.

I do agree with most posters that the kit is unusual and might even be unsafe for various reasons (Is that non-locking d gate?). Is that a bit of string attached to hand jammer or is that dynema rope?

 

[cavemanmike]

Yes i can, ive done them in caves with a borrowed srt kit and practiced them a lot out of caves

That’s exactly what someone else said to me many years ago then got hung up on the hanging re-belay for half an hour and dropping all kinds of gear he brought with him. Never caved with him again . Helpful to take a long sling to stand in if you are not to familiar with the kit. Good luck and let’s hope it doesn’t lead to another call out

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

True but I think that's the big difference is on a via-ferra you are falling on a steel cable, where as in caves you are falling onto dynamic rope, i.e. the traverse rope, so even if your lanyards are not dynamic, the rope is. So unless you clip into the anchors on traverses there is still quite a bit of slack in the system.

I do agree with most posters that the kit is unusual and might even be unsafe for various reasons (Is that non-locking d gate?). Is that a bit of string attached to hand jammer or is that dynema rope?

it is a dynema footloop from starless river i think
Edit: the metalwork holding the harness together is a screw gate

 

[andrewmcleod]

whats wrong with my harness i know people dont like most of my crabs but i only recently got it (second hand) but its got minimal wear and in good condition, pretty sure its a petzl one too.

It's a Petzl Aven harness, and I don't think they've been made long enough for them to go out of date, so assuming it is in good condition then it should be OK ('good condition' meaning 'inspected by a competent person, and found OK').

 

[andrewmcleod]

The important message here isn't that most of the _kit_ itself is that dangerous, but that thinking it is OK to use a D-shaped carabiner instead of a proper central maillon/Omni-type carabiner, and particularly that cowstail carabiner setup, shows a lack of understanding of some of the fundamentals of how to set gear up. This naturally suggests that you may also not be the most competent person to assess the condition of second-hand gear, or to set up your own SRT kit. So people are worried that you are going to do something that is a bad idea with bad consequences because of something you don't understand (and given those cowstails, there are definitely things you don't understand).

Everybody has to start somewhere, so there is no shame in not knowing all the details about SRT kit and why we usually do the things we do. Rules are meant to be broken (e.g. not using the 'standard' SRT kit set up), but you have to know the rules and the reasons for them before you start breaking them. It's also not something that can easily be explained on a forum - don't be afraid to ask for help, get someone very experienced to check over your kit, and buy cowstail rope and ideally an Omni for that harness (and probably a safety link).

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

The important message here isn't that most of the _kit_ itself is that dangerous, but that thinking it is OK to use a D-shaped carabiner instead of a proper central maillon/Omni-type carabiner, and particularly that cowstail carabiner setup, shows a lack of understanding of some of the fundamentals of how to set gear up. This naturally suggests that you may also not be the most competent person to assess the condition of second-hand gear, or to set up your own SRT kit. So people are worried that you are going to do something that is a bad idea with bad consequences because of something you don't understand (and given those cowstails, there are definitely things you don't understand).

Everybody has to start somewhere, so there is no shame in not knowing all the details about SRT kit and why we usually do the things we do. Rules are meant to be broken (e.g. not using the 'standard' SRT kit set up), but you have to know the rules and the reasons for them before you start breaking them. It's also not something that can easily be explained on a forum - don't be afraid to ask for help, get someone very experienced to check over your kit, and buy cowstail rope and ideally an Omni for that harness (and probably a safety link).

im not good at understanding directional distribution and forces but in titan with a hanging rebelay theres not really a way to shock load my sling cowstails as once your past the entrance shaft and on the second pitch theres nothing to slip off to shock load it. so it would act like a normal sling while i do the rebelay or no ? dynamic rope sounds good for cowstails but for titan would i really need it

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

could i not at the rebelay just put my ascenders in above my descender and then switch my descender across so i wouldnt have to use my cowstails. and on the way up put my descender on ,and lock it off while i move my ascenders across ??

 

[Spaniel on crack]

could i not at the rebelay just put my ascenders in above my descender and then switch my descender across so i wouldnt have to use my cowstails. and on the way up put my descender on ,and lock it off while i move my ascenders across ??

If your doing that surley your better taking 2 decenders for the ways down? So you can lock one of put the other one on past the rebelay then take the first one off and carry on down on the 2nd one

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

If your doing that surley your better taking 2 decenders for the ways down? So you can lock one of put the other one on past the rebelay then take the first one off and carry on down on the 2nd one

no you descend down to the rebelay. put the ascenders in , move the descender across , lock it off , move the hand jammer across , stand in the foot loop to deweight the chest jammer then take that off then test descender and remove hand jammer and descend ?

 

[PeteHall]

whats wrong with my harness i know people dont like most of my crabs but i only recently got it (second hand) but its got minimal wear and in good condition, pretty sure its a petzl one too.

I'll defer to @andrewmcleod on the harness. I don't recognised it, but from the single picture it looks horribly faded and alongside the chest harness I'd assumed it was pretty ancient, but perhaps it's supposed to be that colour.

I'll also second what he said below about understanding equipped properly before cutting corners.

Your caveat that it's "just Titan" (presumably you mean that the SRT is straightforward) shouldn't be an excuse for inadequate kit.

Honestly, just sit down with someone experienced and go through it together, then try it out on a training rig to get everything adjusted correctly. You really don't want to get 10m up Titan and discover it's all adjusted wrong and you need twice the energy to get yourself out...

 

[JoshW]

Christ so many people feeding the troll

 

[Alex]

Also no Pantin? That's going to be a tiring ascent then.

 

[RegisteredRopeCutter]

I'll defer to @andrewmcleod on the harness. I don't recognised it, but from the single picture it looks horribly faded and alongside the chest harness I'd assumed it was pretty ancient, but perhaps it's supposed to be that colour.

I'll also second what he said below about understanding equipped properly before cutting corners.

Your caveat that it's "just Titan" (presumably you mean that the SRT is straightforward) shouldn't be an excuse for inadequate kit.

Honestly, just sit down with someone experienced and go through it together, then try it out on a training rig to get everything adjusted correctly. You really don't want to get 10m up Titan and discover it's all adjusted wrong and you need twice the energy to get yourself out...

It’s just a bit dirty

 

[andrewmcleod]

im not good at understanding directional distribution and forces...

You *can* do lots of things. That you have to ask, or you don't know why it's more faff than it's worth and all the things that can go wrong, is why you shouldn't... since you are clearly relatively new to all this, why make your life much much harder and potentially not dangerous than it has to be?

People aren't 'good' at SRT just because they know lots of stuff.
They are good because they set themself up for success.
Don't set yourself up for failure, and then be surprised when it all gets in a tangle...
Set yourself up for success. Make your kit more conventional. There is a reason behind everything.