'Dont throw rocks' sign at Gaping Ghyll?

[cap n chris]

Signs should not be required prohibiting behaving like a twat. It should be glaringly obvious to anyone not to throw stones at all. Anyone stupid enough to throw stones is stupid enough to throw stones even if a sign prohibiting the throwing of stones was in place.

 

[Speleotron]

Signs should not be required prohibiting behaving like a twat. It should be glaringly obvious to anyone not to throw stones at all. Anyone stupid enough to throw stones is stupid enough to throw stones even if a sign prohibiting the throwing of stones was in place.

Im not sure, the guy we told off was genuinly supprised that anyone could be down there, and a lot just dont think. THe knobs that do it because people are down there probably wont be up at GG

 

[graham]

The knobs that do it because people are down there probably wont be up at GG

Why? Does being an idiot mean that you cannot walk uphill?  :doubt:

 

[Speleotron]

No but in general the walkers who go up there are less likely to do it on perpouse, like when climbing in some of the more urban quarries you get yobs chucking rocks at you as your leading (i kid you not) but the same doesnt happen in the Cairngormes

 

[cap n chris]

Signs should not be required prohibiting behaving like a twat. It should be glaringly obvious to anyone not to throw stones at all. Anyone stupid enough to throw stones is stupid enough to throw stones even if a sign prohibiting the throwing of stones was in place.

Im not sure, the guy we told off was genuinly supprised that anyone could be down there, and a lot just dont think.

No-one should ever chuck rocks off a precipice*, whether or not anyone is likely to be at the bottom. It is illegal to discharge a weapon (presumably since there might be someone at the other end, whose presence you were otherwise unaware of)... "Sorry mate, I didn't realise you were in the woods when I fired my rifle". Just because some twat might not consider there to be a caver, rock climber etc. below them it makes no difference to their twatishness when they throw a rock from the top. Therefore my previous comment regarding the non-necessity of signage still stands.

* Except if you're the only person helicoptered to an island of 10 square metres with a nice edge to lob stuff from.

 

[Peter Burgess]

You shouldn't lean out of a train window (not that you can these days) but it doesn't (didn't) stop the railway companies putting signs up telling you it is a stupid thing to do.

 

[khakipuce]

I've had people skimming stones at me while canoeing on Coniston, it wasn't deliberate, they just didn't think. I don't suppose a sign saying "Don't throw stones at canonists" would really make much difference, I'm sure they know that that's not a good thing to do, but they did it anyway. 

 

[Scoff]

Out of interest, we have even had stones lobbed down the shaft whilst the BPC's GG Winch is running - with the chair carrying punters up and down and a crowd of folk around on the surface (though culprits admittedly usually kids/ teenagers). But you do wonder how dumb some folk can be!

So, for me I go nowhere near the foot of the shaft if I can avoid it.

I suppose you could leave a volunteer on the surface if doing the Main Shaft or Dihedral...

Another alternative would be to make & take your own sign which could show a date & time so people would know it meant 'currently'.

To be honest at GG, when the Winch isn't there and our safety netting's been removed, you are more likely to get hit on the head by some dickhead who leans just a bit too close over that loose edge or the mossy, wet lip.

Or a four year old kid being held at arms length by his Dad whilst being asked if he can see the bottom.

Trust me, I am not joking.

So, going down a deep hole?? - Be afraid, be very afraid....

Scoff

BPC/ CDG

 

[Slug]

I suspect that putting up a sign would be a double edged sword, On one hand it would inform the casual but smarter passer by that there may be cavers below, and that dropping a stone might be a bad idea, on the other hand it would probably cause the complete F***wit's in our fair nation to go and do it, which they might not have considered, had the sign not put the idea in their tiny little minds in the first place.
As Scoff's posting alluded to, there are some right numpty's out there.

Just in case, I'll have 2 sharps, 2 flats and a packet of gravel please. 

 

[Speleotron]

Ok a sign shouldnt be necessary buy i think it would work, not many of the type of person you see chucking rocks at you in the quarries when your climbing would go up to GG. OK i'm generalising but the walkers that go up there seem decent enough. But does this kind of thing just go with the territory? I suppose with the Dihedral keeps you out of the firing line, and its sensible to stay clear of below the main shaft once your down there, its just not nice to have stones coming down.

And yes your'e right we were in more danger of being hit by falling walkers than by rocks, we saw some real idiots!

 

[Elaine]

How about a sign at the bottom saying "Beware of naughty people* throwing stones"?


*numptys
  f***wits
  stupid people
  etc

 

[mikem]

How about a sign telling people about the cavers & caverns below, rather than mentioning throwing rocks... positive signs are generally much more effective than negative (DO NOT) ones.

On a similar note we were doing an abseil at Symonds Yat when one of the kids watching decided to see how far it was by kicking a rock off, fortunately noone was below & her parents were very apologetic afterwards.

Mike

 

[SamT]

Having read all the above, my thoughts on the matter are that a sign warning the generally good 'rambling folk' of the yorkshire dales that there may be persons below would be a very good idea. It should be placed in sight of the 'lip' of the shaft i.e. the most likely throwing spot rather than incorporated on one of the 'interpretation' boards.
I like Mikem's idea of a sign basically informing that there might actually be folks wandering about down below which would appeal to 99% of folks common sense. There is nowt nobody can do about the other 1%.

I grew up in castleton and was taught by my father how to drop rocks down the mineshafts on Dirtlow rake and count the seconds to determine/demonstrate how deep they are. I dont think either of us could be classed as Neds/f*ckwits/scallys/idiots etc.  Its the practical application of science - we all know that objects fall with an acceleration of about 9.8 m/s?  right ??

 

[footleg]

No-one should ever chuck rocks off a precipice.
...
Just because some twat might not consider there to be a caver, rock climber etc. below them it makes no difference to their twatishness when they throw a rock from the top.

So come on. Hands up folks. How many of us on this forum does cap 'n chris consider to be a twat? Has anyone here not at some point thrown a rock off a cliff or down a hole*?

* excluding those trips where we were helicoptered alone to an infeasibly small but tall island.

 

[Elaine]

How about a sign at the bottom saying "Beware of naughty people* throwing stones"?


*numptys
  f***wits
  stupid people
  etc

These names are to cover against those who should ignore any signs saying 'don't throw stones down the hole as there may be cavers at the bottom' on the surface. Not the scientifically minded experimenting types who did not realise.

 

[Glenn]

I have requested that the issue of signage at GG and Alum (anywhere else?) be discussed at the next CNCC meeting - Friday 16th October.

Cheers,

Glenn

 

[Maggot]

Has anyone here not at some point thrown a rock off a cliff or down a hole*?

I was present at the ceremonial chucking-over-300-foot-cliff of an old upright piano once. We did make sure there was nobody below though, and yes it was on an island. A one-off event, and truly spectacular, both visually and audibly! Unfortunately no video of this event exists

 

[Goydenman]

A bit of a coincidence today was training people on project management skills and some guys on course have been working on path going up to GG. After talking with them about what is down there I mentioned about recent incident of people throwing stones when cavers were down there. Interesting their reply was "we were considering throwing the unused material down there rather than cart it back - what stopped us was not the thought of cavers being there, must admit did not think about that being a possibility, we thought not right to dump stuff even if it is in a place people can't see it." I think the material was unused slabs.

 

[robjones]

The attraction of seeing rocks (as large as possible) move from top to bottom is nothing new. Came across a late C19 account in a Welsh denominational monthly magazine where the minister of a chapel near Cwmystwyth (major mid Wales lead mine) described how the miners used to amuse themselves on Sundays prior to the chapel asserting its influence - they used to take strong drink to the top of the mountainside, wrestle, have trials of strength and roll large rocks down the mountainside. Anyone who has visited Cwmystwyth Mines will know how steep the hillsides are, and if you've ever sucummed to the temptation of trundling a rock down the scree, will appreciate how far and how fast they go. That there are no large rocks that one or two persons might just shift, only relatively mingy little ones, suggests that those mid C19 miners rolled up their shirt sleeves and worked hard to get the big rocks a-trundling. 

 

[Speleotron]

"we were considering throwing the unused material down there rather than cart it back - what stopped us was not the thought of cavers being there, must admit did not think about that being a possibility, we thought not right to dump stuff even if it is in a place people can't see it."

Phew that would have been nasty.

Thanks for requesting the issue to be discussed, I posted on here to see what the consensus would be, but it wouldnt be a bad thing for it to be depated at the meeting. Obviously nothing like a 'thou shalt not' sign up there we dont want to nanniefy the area, maybe something pointing out that cavers might be down there and politely asking them not to, like others have mentioned.