Dove Holes Tunnel

[RobinGriffiths]

Generally trespass is a civil offence, but in relation to the railways and MOD property it is a criminal offence.

 

[DAN]

There is no law that says tresspasser will be prosecuted you have to commite criminal damage before you can be taken to court. Tresspassing is an old wives tale.

Dan

 

[bograt]

it was all logged in the TSG log book
[/quote]

You mean the ones that disappeared to George Mansions, never to be seen again.

 

[Mark]

You mean the ones that disappeared to George Mansions, never to be seen again.

Aye them's the ones, not totally convinced it was Ben that had them though.

 

[bograt]

You mean the ones that disappeared to George Mansions, never to be seen again.

Aye them's the ones, not totally convinced it was Ben that had them though.

He told me he'd taken them for indexing and cross - referencing when he was TSG librarian.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Just for clarification:

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/1037.aspx

Trespassing and vandalising on the railway is a criminal offence which carries a fine of up to ?1,000. Graffiti is also a serious crime which can result in a prison sentence.

 

[graham]

There is no law that says tresspasser will be prosecuted you have to commite criminal damage before you can be taken to court. Tresspassing is an old wives tale.

Dan

In the case of the railways, not so.

Railway Trespass

Several summary offences deal with this:

    Section 16 Railway Regulation Act 1840: it is an offence to wilfully trespass on any railway or premises connected therewith and to refuse to leave when asked to do so by any officer or agent of the railway company. 'Wilfulness' can be proved by the refusal to leave. The offence is punishable by one month's imprisonment

    Section 23 Regulation of the Railways Act 1868: this prohibits passage upon or across any railway line except for the purpose of crossing the line at an authorised point. A person commits an offence by so doing after having once received warning by the railway company, their servants or agents, to desist

    Section 55 British Transport Commission Act 1949: this penalises trespass on railway lines or property in dangerous proximity to such lines or electrical apparatus. Evidence is required of a notice exhibited at the station nearest the place of offence providing a clear public warning not to trespass on a railway. Punishable by a fine.

Source

 

[peterk]

There is no law that says tresspasser will be prosecuted you have to commite criminal damage before you can be taken to court. Tresspassing is an old wives tale.

Dan

Not in the case of railways. If you are on/near the track and there are notices in place at the adjacent stations then your guilty. I think being caught in a tunnel would guarantee prosecution - proximity to track, high risk of injury to yourself (and the mental health of a train driver) .  Disruption to services and age are other factors.

 

[SamT]

So, providing there is no sign asking you not to at the nearest station (which there will undoubtedly be), under the above Sections, you'll get away with it once if you leave when they ask you to.

Could it be argued that you didn't see the sign at the nearest station (not that there are any stations on that line - since its a quarry to mainline link)

Note - not condoning it - just playing devils advocate.

 

[bograt]

The Regulation of Railways Acts 1840-1873: "railway" extends to all railways constructed under the powers of any Act of Parliament and intended for the conveyance of passengers in or upon carriages drawn or impelled by the power of steam or by any other mechanical power; and the word "company" included the proprietors for the time being of any such railway (section 21 Railway Regulation Act 1840).

"Intended for the conveyance of passengers", its a goods line. Not sure about proprietors either, Railtrack are responsible for the track, the quarry companies the traffic.

 

[graham]

Could it be argued that you didn't see the sign at the nearest station (not that there are any stations on that line - since its a quarry to mainline link)

It could be argued, yes, but would fail on the wording which requires only that the sign is there. There was nothing so say that you had have to have seen it. Unless the line is wholly separate from Network Rail, then there will be a nearest station, even if it's 20 miles away.

 

[graham]

The Regulation of Railways Acts 1840-1873: "railway" extends to all railways constructed under the powers of any Act of Parliament and intended for the conveyance of passengers in or upon carriages drawn or impelled by the power of steam or by any other mechanical power; and the word "company" included the proprietors for the time being of any such railway (section 21 Railway Regulation Act 1840).

"Intended for the conveyance of passengers", its a goods line. Not sure about proprietors either, Railtrack are responsible for the track, the quarry companies the traffic.

I think you'll find that the 1949 Act probably doesn't have that clause in it.

 

[bograt]

The Regulation of Railways Acts 1840-1873: "railway" extends to all railways constructed under the powers of any Act of Parliament and intended for the conveyance of passengers in or upon carriages drawn or impelled by the power of steam or by any other mechanical power; and the word "company" included the proprietors for the time being of any such railway (section 21 Railway Regulation Act 1840).

"Intended for the conveyance of passengers", its a goods line. Not sure about proprietors either, Railtrack are responsible for the track, the quarry companies the traffic.

I think you'll find that the 1949 Act probably doesn't have that clause in it.

Only quoting from the same source as you. :halo:

Anyway, since railtrack are in charge of it during the times quoted, whats wrong with asking the area manager for permission for a one - off  fact finding trip, maybe accompanied by an official?
Apparantely he is an amenable chap and only lives in Buxton.
COPD refers to more than just the narrow inlets in there, someone with a bit of speleo - nonce might  be able to glean some useful information, and I'm sure railtrack would like to know as much about the place as we can tell them.

 

[graham]

Anyway, since railtrack are in charge of it during the times quoted, what's wrong with asking the area manager for permission for a one - off  fact finding trip, maybe accompanied by an official?
Apparently he is an amenable chap and only lives in Buxton.

That would seem a perfectly sensible idea.