Dow Cave Incident

[cavegirly]

i was within the cave on the 18th january within the incident and would like to clarify that nobody can be blamed for the unfortunate event that happened and that as we worked as a team we all stayed safe and reasonably unhurt

 

[cap n chris]

Is colage the same as college? Assuming that it does indeed refer to the college, the next obvious question is: how can anyone answer the poll without actually knowing the background story first? - only then would it be possible to have an informed opinion on the matter.

So,..... if you were there, what happened?.....

 

[cavegirly]

11 students entered dow cave at 12.00 hours and were rescued at 18.30 hours along with 4 team members which 2 swam to the entrance and an to a local shop for help as there was no mobile reception. i was one of the last students to be rescued from the cave. i am not explaining what happened to you when you clearly have read the pappers and watched the news which means you will also no that me and my peers are currently planning to raise money for the fell rescue team who saved our lives.

 

[cap n chris]

I haven't got a telly and the story in the papers was about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

[graham]

.... i was one of the last students to be rescued from the cave. ...

Given the number of students (and to be fair non-students) rescued from here over the years, I sincerely doubt that.

However, to take Chris's point, I have seen neither press nor TV coverage, being abroad ATM but would very much like to know what happened and what lessons can, therefore, be learned for the future.

 

[cap n chris]

... perhaps cavegirly could start the ball rolling by filling in the poll, presumably blaming the weather since she's already written that nobody could be blamed for the incident.

 

[graham]

I hadn't looked closely at the poll. What's a "colage"?

 

[Peter Burgess]

How can a colage be blamed for an incident?
How can the weather be blamed for anything? Blame is an attitude directed at someone in an accusatory manner, which implies wrong-doing, which further implies a conscious action was involved. As weather is an inanimate concept, it cannot be 'blamed'.
Why does anyone need to 'blame' anything or anyone?
How can anyone who wasn't involved know anyway?
Why doesn't someone who was involved explain what they think caused the problem? Gosh. What a lot of questions.

Whatever - I hope nobody has been put off caving. 

 

[cavegirly]

nobody blamed the collage i was stating that because something went wrong we now have people questioning if caving is safe for people

 

[graham]

You still haven't told us what went wrong.

 

[wormster]

Without more accurate information it is hard to assess who or indeed anything is to "blame":

Numbers of novice caver's, for instance might be useful along with the prevailing weather conditions....

I could go on but I hope that you'll flesh out those bones a bit.

 

[paul]

... assuming that "cavegirly" was actually there?

 

[Elaine]

... assuming that "cavegirly" was actually there?

She said she was there, and I have no reason to doubt her. Or did you just not notice that bit? 

I am with Mr Burgess here, why does there have to be blame? Just needs a look back at what happened and see if there was any better solution.

 

[Elaine]

... assuming that "cavegirly" was actually there?

Or maybe I am just too trusting!

 

[kay]

nobody blamed the collage i was stating that because something went wrong we now have people questioning if caving is safe for people

In that case, it would be helpful if the poll had an option on the lines of 'no-one/nothing is to blame'. At the moment we are being invited to blame either the weather or the 'colage'.

But what is the point of the poll? Most of us don't know what happened. The press reports  conflict with statements made by people who claimed to be there. We don't know what the experience of those in the group was, what the weather was like, what the forecast had said, what actually happened, indeed whether anyone's lives were in fact in danger.

We've already had, in another incident, the national press quoting Alfred Wainwright as a caving authority. I'm not sure that it's any more sensible to ask a random group of cavers, many of whom don't know the cave in question, let alone what happened on this occasion, to pass judgement on this incident.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Surely the most effective way to argue an alternative viewpoint to an allegedly false one made by the press or whoever (assuming that is what the issue is here), is to make a well-reasoned statement of the plain facts as they are understood by those with a first-hand experience of the event. To ask a dispirate group of uninvolved (and largely uniniformed) strangers what they think, and on top of that to place only two voting options in a poll, seems totally pointless and in real danger of back-firing.

 

[Hughie]

This is all too confusing for me.
Colage? Collage? Isn't that one of those pictures made up of bits and pieces?
How can you blame any incident on a picture. Weather is naturally occuring, so one can hardly blame that.

Hmmmm..... confusing.  :-\ :-\

 

[cap n chris]

Just in case no-one else has said so before....

Welcome to the forum, Cavegirly!   

 

[menacer]

i was within the cave on the 18th january within the incident and would like to clarify that nobody can be blamed for the unfortunate event that happened and that as we worked as a team we all stayed safe and reasonably unhurt

Going back to the original post.......
Whether it was blameworthy or not, a colage, collage or college or not, whether anyone was really there or not,whether should be a poll...or not..........this bit

we worked as a team we all stayed safe and reasonably unhurt

is good to see.

 

[Peter Burgess]

i was within the cave on the 18th january within the incident and would like to clarify that nobody can be blamed for the unfortunate event that happened and that as we worked as a team we all stayed safe and reasonably unhurt

Going back to the original post.......
Whether it was blameworthy or not, a colage, collage or college or not, whether anyone was really there or not,whether should be a poll...or not..........this bit

we worked as a team we all stayed safe and reasonably unhurt

is good to see.

Absolutely.