Feature request: Killfile

[Downer]

I can't see how you can have an "anything goes policy" on Idle Chat and also have a Shit Heap operated by the mods.

Read my post - i said the shit heap would be opened up for posting (replies only, no new topics of course). I mean by "anything goes" discussion on any topic.

I did read it. Unless you are prepared to dissect a thread and only shitheap part of it, the difficulty stands. You'll be ditching the good with the bad int he same topic.

If a topic is so rubbish that it stinks even on Idle Chat, why not just delete it altogether?

Because the shit heap demonstrates to newcomers or infrequent users what sort of topics are not welcome.

It also demonstrates a lot more than that. As one or two others have pointed out, not just me.

To be honest, the whole thing creates a very bad first impression. For one thing the very term "Shit Heap" undermines the professional image you're seeking,

Well that's my problem, not yours...and what "professional image" exactly is it that i'm seeking?

That is a very good question. I'm beginning to wonder, now.

for another it makes newcomers feel that Big Brother is watching.

Good, that's the idea. It's a moderated forum, not a free for all.

And that's a very good answer.

Not to mention the pointlessness of moving a topic only to delete it a week later. You've only felt it necessary to remove 16 topics over nearly three months

As i've said, it demonstrates what is and what isn't acceptable and stops all the invevitable "where's my xxxxxx topic gone?" style posts that would appear if we just deleted things straight away.

Depends whether you give notice, or leave a locked "moved" message, doesn't it?

Also I suspect the shit heap is going to get a lot busier once the moderation is tightened.

However, you cannot enforce it with moderation and especially by being po-faced when people make a joke or two. If you act all high-handed like you're some sort of headmaster, you will only put people's backs up or drive them away altogether.

Well yes i can actually. The sort of people who's backs are put up are most likely to be the people who aren't really welcome here anyway so that's doubly good imho.

I shall watch with interest to see who these people are.

Very few topics get seriously derailed and I think most people are rather aware when it happens but are simply caught up in the flow. In those cases you could step in and do some severe pruning - right back to the original subject

I think there's a lot of topics that get derailed and I've received countless complaints on the matter. I suspect your idea of derailed and mine is quite different.

I'd consider a topic derailed if it becomes unusable before the subject has been exhausted. If "countless" topics suffer that fate then there is a definite problem but the solution is still the same. I haven't seen many and the couple I have seen are prime candidates for the sort of shove back on course that I would expect from a mod. if they think it's worth it.

but for goodness sake, give a day or two's notice and explain that you're only doing it because the topic is too important to be wasted. You won't get the result you want by wavinga  big stick around, you might by persuading people rationally.

No. I don't have time to study every topic and then give days of notice that it's going to be pruned. I don't sit here reading this forum all day, i have a job to go to.

That doesn't make sense. You'd read exactly the same amount whether your decision is then to delete immediately, send to the shitheap, or notify and delete.

I've tried over and over to explain that we don't want drivel in the forums, but some people just won't listen,

Nobody wants real drivel, ffs. Can't say I'd noticed any such explanations, but there again I don't read everything posted.

which is why some users are asking for an ignore user function, etc.

Then give it to them. I'm all for user control.

Oh well, it was intended to be constructive comment. Sorry you don't accept any of it.

 

[Known by None]

This forum is too small for the ignore function really, if people can't skim read or even predict poster trends and self filter, then that is their lookout. Idle chat is a pretty good indication that the contents aren't going to be cutting edge and top notch, so long as the rest of the forum is kept on topic and mods and irate folk overtly remind others to keep on topic, then I can't see why people won't police themselves.
I still don't understand when this became a problem, it seems like a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy really, I notice more people are pointing out 'shit posts' today, was this as big a problem in the past? or did we tolerate/learn to get along with it? after all that is what being grown up is about, and while there have been some very childish posts, ignoring someone in a permanent manner on the grounds that they don't sit right with you or what you deem important is even more infantile.
This forum.. and even the community isn't big enough to promote that sort of bad feeling, I've seen ignore become a right pain in the ass when the ignorer joins a thread asking what it is all about, simply because the person they are ignoring posted something of substance and they can't see what it is. So everyone has to do a recap for them, or cut and paste the ignored person's post and it no longer becomes anonymous and ends up causing issues.

I don't really enjoy protracted technical debates but I can spot them and I generally let them pass by, can this shit posting be extended to anything that doesn't agree with me? it really is horses for courses and on a forum that is used by all on the worldwide web, I wouldn't expect anything less, so I deal with it.

  If you implement the ignore button, you should give it a double function of automatically working both ways, because if someone is arrogant enough to write me and my opinions past/present and future off on the grounds of some light hearted banter, I certainly wouldn't want to know them.

If I sound a little miffed it is because I have grown to like the diversity on this forum, the minute it becomes militant and people are singled out and ignored, it is beyond redemption.

 

[anfieldman]

Well said Gnome.
The forum does need some input from Moderators on occasions (as shown during 'James's' racist rants) but I don't think it needs any more control than at present. Or 'ignore' buttons either.

 

[Hughie]

Spot on Gnomie 

 

[Elaine]

Very good Gnomie, that sums up how I feel almost perfectly.

Unfortunately however, you do know that we are talking to ourselves don't you? Only us drivellers are reading and contributing to this thread now. The rest are ignoring it.

 

[Downer]

Very good Gnomie, that sums up how I feel almost perfectly.

Unfortunately however, you do know that we are talking to ourselves don't you? Only us drivellers are reading and contributing to this thread now. The rest are ignoring it.

No, they've seen Bubba's statement and know they've won. Time to move on.

 

[clunk]

I think this forum is let down by the moderators.
There are three global moderators on a forum of this size. That is not enough.
I have seen the moderators add fuel to the flames on this forum. And blatantly ignore requests for pruning and topic locking.
One moderators contribution to one particularly heated topic was to embed images and post smiley's, after repeated requests to lock the topic and prune the crap.
One of the moderators you say you have, I do not recall any posts from him, so do not think I am picking on them all.
But I think you should have a serious re-think on who your moderators are, and change/add to them.
You have 1068 members and three moderators. 356 people per moderator.
You really think that is enough?

 

[cap n chris]

If you are referring to me then here's a question:

Is a moderator allowed to be a contributor, in their own right, having their own opinion or, once they are of moderator status are they supposed to no longer be allowed to post comments as an individual?

If Bubba states the answer to be "no" then I'd like to be reverted to normal status.


When I was approached to be a mod (on the grounds of my frequent attendance at this hallowed site, enabling me to be "eyes and ears", so to speak/write) I asked whether the status bar could be kept blank since I wished to be able to continue using this forum in the same way I had always done; my understanding was that anything untowards was then to be notified to Bubba along the lines of "report to moderator" for him to make executive decisions over although I have modded stuff which has been clearly out of order. As an invitee, and not one of the original Derbyshire creators of this site, who are the true administrators of this site in my eyes, I believe decisions of a global moderation basis reside higher up the chain from my newbie mod status.

The thread to which you refer (I'm guessing it's the DP Big Bash one) was just a simple case of quoting DPers, one after another, who were clearly displaying different characteristics to those claimed by other DPers. i.e. stating they're lovely on the one hand but then using bare insults on the other. As a contributor to that thread it would have been unbalanced of me to post responses while modding out those of others - so it was a rock-and-a-hard-place: either mod out the entire thread or leave it alone.

You have 1068 members and three moderators. 356 people per moderator

Misuse of figures: there aren't 356 active contributors to this forum per moderator. As a ball park figure I'd say it's more like 35 active members per mod, if that; tops.

 

[bubba]

I agree that we probably do need more moderators here - we did have one more but he was on here so rarely i removed him. It's another thing that i will look into but there's not that many people who fit the bill really.

 

[clunk]

If you are referring to me then here's a question:

Is a moderator allowed to be a contributor, in their own right, having their own opinion or, once they are of moderator status are they supposed to no longer be allowed to post comments as an individual?

If Bubba states the answer to be "no" then I'd like to be reverted to normal status.


When I was approached to be a mod (on the grounds of my frequent attendance at this hallowed site, enabling me to be "eyes and ears", so to speak/write) I asked whether the status bar could be kept blank since I wished to be able to continue using this forum in the same way I had always done; my understanding was that anything untowards was then to be notified to Bubba along the lines of "report to moderator" for him to make executive decisions over although I have modded stuff which has been clearly out of order. As an invitee, and not one of the original Derbyshire creators of this site, who are the true administrators of this site in my eyes, I believe decisions of a global moderation basis reside higher up the chain from my newbie mod status.

The thread to which you refer (I'm guessing it's the DP Big Bash one) was just a simple case of quoting DPers, one after another, who were clearly displaying different characteristics to those claimed by other DPers. i.e. stating they're lovely on the one hand but then using bare insults on the other. As a contributor to that thread it would have been unbalanced of me to post responses while modding out those of others - so it was a rock-and-a-hard-place: either mod out the entire thread or leave it alone.

You have 1068 members and three moderators. 356 people per moderator

Misuse of figures: there aren't 356 active contributors to this forum per moderator. As a ball park figure I'd say it's more like 35 active members per mod, if that; tops.

And when you were repeatedly asked to lock the thread, you posted an emote. What kind of moderator is that?
It was a trip report. It should of stayed as such. But no, the powers that be, I.E. you! Decided the thread is better off with loads of crap in it. Even now it sits there, still not cleaned up to leave the trip report. How on earth can anyone ask us to respect a forum when the moderators have no respect for it themselves?
Personally, if bubba wants to improve this forum he should remove your moderator status. Cause you certainly dont use it properly.

 

[bubba]

Please PM me the topic concerned and i'll have a look at it.

Topics are generally only locked as a last resort so asking for it to be locked doesn't mean a moderator has to do so 

 

[Downer]

I agree that we probably do need more moderators here - we did have one more but he was on here so rarely i removed him. It's another thing that i will look into but there's not that many people who fit the bill really.

Surely some of the countless complainers would help out? I bet clunk would be only too happy to oblige.

 

[bubba]

I've already asked you in a PM to stop posting smartass comments. Any more and you get banned, ok?

 

[Elaine]

I think we ought to remember that we are having our forum banter etc in what is effectively Bubba's house. Therefore we do have to curb ourselves a bit at least. The 'favourite icecream' type threads and the topics that decay into silly comments are the obvious ones to be avoided (though as Downer has said before, it is easy to get a bit carried away). However, is it more than that? Do you (Bubba) want this site to be more of a notice board and discussion forum on more technical things as well as trip reports? With nothing that is irrelevant to caving? Or is it just too hard to define exactly where the boundary between light-hearted cave-related chat and 'drivel' is?

We all have a different view of where this boundary is and I think that mine is way different to some of the rest of you so I would appreciate some guidance.

 

[bubba]

I just want proper topics to stop getting sidelined by excessive banter. That's it really. I'm not trying to stop people having fun, even though it is probably appearing that way at the moment.

I just removed around 50 posts from one topic because they were all just irrelevant to the topic concerned.

I appreciate we all have a different definition of the boudaries which is why the shit heap is there, and will be used more from now on. Hopefully that will make it a bit clearer.

I'll also be paying more atttention to general moderation for a while so that things can get back to how i want them.

 

[Downer]

I appreciate we all have a different definition of the boudaries which is why the shit heap is there, and will be used more from now on. Hopefully that will make it a bit clearer.

Anne deserves a better answer than that. She requested clear guidelines about what's acceptable and what isn't. You just pointed her at the shit heap. That's not an answer, she wants to know what you're happy with before making any faux pas.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I think we ought to remember that we are having our forum banter etc in what is effectively Bubba's house. Therefore we do have to curb ourselves a bit at least.

Sort of. Perhaps equally important is that we having our forum banter in a public place, 'hired' by bubba, to which anyone from anywhere in the world with unlimited internet access can come.

 

[bubba]

Anne deserves a better answer than that.

Does she really? Well, sorry to dissapoint you.

She requested clear guidelines about what's acceptable and what isn't. You just pointed her at the shit heap. That's not an answer, she wants to know what you're happy with before making any faux pas.

I don't think it's something that can be accurately defined. Myself and the mods have an idea of what is ok and what is not and how we want the forum to be. Things that fall outside of that will be shitheaped so therefore the shit heap *will* give an accurate idea of what isn't acceptable. So in this case, i do feel it's an answer.

 

[New Phil]

I think thats the right time to lock this thread

Good points from all involved

 

[kay]

I don't think it's something that can be accurately defined. Myself and the mods have an idea of what is ok and what is not and how we want the forum to be. Things that fall outside of that will be shitheaped so therefore the shit heap *will* give an accurate idea of what isn't acceptable. So in this case, i do feel it's an answer.

Like Anne, I'd like more guidance as to where the boundary is. Saying 'look at the shit heap' is OK, but I can remember looking at a thread I'd been following and finding myself surprised that it had vanished into the shit heap. Would it be possible to include a 1-liner as to why you've shit-heaped something? - eg was it the topic itself, or was it that it had degenerated beyond the standard? I don't want to point fingers 'shit-heaped because of XXX's comment' but some explanation of what facet was unacceptable would be helpful.

I don't deliberately post anything that is totally worthless, and I expect the same is true of all the other 'drivellers'. So obviously I am seeing my posts in a different way from the mods, and it would be good to have some more help in how to stay the right side of the line.