First aid kit

[Johnny]

Ive heard that those shiny blankets are just a bit too lightweight in a cave - they just get shredded withing seconds of removal from packet.

I can vouch for that, they are next to useless, I remember sitting with various bits of the stuff tentatively wrapped around me whilst I shivered and waited to be winkled out of the boulder collapse I had unexpectedly found myself the wrong side of

The CS ones Sam T pictured are good but you always have to buy a new one after each dig in Winnats Head, I always climb into mine cos its too chuffin cold up there!

No I haven't done First Aider training but have often thought that I should.

 

[AndyF]

Ominpon self administered army issue. This is a opiate based drug designed for sticking in soliders when shot

Sound mega-useful for expeditions - where do you get it? how much?

Hi. With great difficulty unless you can persuade some military type to give you some.

It comes in a use-once viall complete with the needle. Designed to be administered by stabbing oneself in the shoulder through clothing. Mine all went out of date so I don't have any now..

Intended for immediate use in a battle situation when wounded to allow evacuation...

One would have to be carful through airports etc. as they are opiates and would certainly raise eyebrows if spotted... :shock:

 

[Dave H]

Cave_Troll - The diabetic 'training' was from the guy himself, and he was always 'high' on jam sandwiches whilst underground. He must have given up 18 years ago (when you were still in nappies :wink: ), and I know treatments change with time so there is no way I would treat a diabetic now.
twllddu - I had First Aid at Work training in my last company, but my current company wasn't keen on me being a first aider (they wanted more women!) and wouldn't pay for me to go on the refresher course, or even give me the time off if I wanted to pay for myself :x

Do I remember DCRO, or SWCC running a first aid course a couple of years ago? Are there any more planned as I know a few people who want their skills updating (me included)?

 

[SamT]

Im up to date on my First aid at work. and yes if my mate was in a bad way down a cave - I would use it in anger. Infact it wouldn't have to be a mate. If anybody was suffering and I thought I could help I would.

Please lets not have a row about first aid and insurance/sueing/laywers/liablilty

You can start a new thread on that one if you want to

 

[twllddu]

Please lets not have a row about first aid and insurance/sueing/laywers/liablilty

You can start a new thread on that one if you want to

a: let's not start a row
b: let's please NOT start a new thread on legal stuff!!!!

Maybe it would be worth starting a thread on how many people do have some reasonable first aid training though, I don't just mean bits of paper either.

 

[Slug]

I agree with the general thread so far , especially the idea that its the Knowledge thats important, after all what use is any FAK if nobody knows how to use it.
I was trained in the Forces as an auxilliary medic. The three things stressed to Us the most were B.B.S., or Breathing, Bleeding and Shock

BREATHING; Make sure, as soon as possable that the Victim ( sorry, Casualty) has clear and unobstructed airways, the toungue for instance can fall back and block the throat, though if He's yelling or bitching about how much it 'urts, I think You could take it that the airway is clear.

BLEEDING;Can often look worse than it actually is. The best way to stop it is Direct Pressure ie: press it tightly until it stops. then apply a dressing, and,if possabl a covering of some sorts, Gaffa Tape is quite good for this

SHOCK; Not a lot You can do about this except minimise its effects Its a natural reaction to being damaged. We were taught to keep the casualty as warm as possable, preferably off the cold, damp ground ( Difficult in a cave I know),and to keep them as calm, as You can. One of the most important things was to address the Mental aspect of shock. Try to reassure them . You know the sort of thing, " dont worry, It'll all be alright, You're not that bad , rescue's on its way, I know what I'm Doing, Daves been doing Your Wife whilst You're on Night's". ( Actually, forget the last one), But seriously a posative Mental Attitude can go a long way to minimising the effects.

Now the disclaimer, This is no way a comprehensive guide to First Aid, above OR below ground, I admit that I'm a little Rusty, its been Years since I've had to do this for real, and Techniques and Practices may have changed drasticly.I would recomend that individuals take relevant training for themselves, or at least read up on the subject.
I hope this basic advice is of use.

 

[cap n chris]

Need to be up to date on First Aid for work requirements. Yep, the work FAK is a "normal" one and probably more of a gesture than a help.

Seems to me from reading this thread that it's a case of KISS and therefore my revised FAK is now going to be:

Aspirin
Sterile water pods for grit in eyes
Heavy duty poly sack
Some gaffer tape

Cyanide capsule*

Have I missed anything?


(*Only joking!).

 

[Slug]

Sounds like where I used to work....Enough bandages and other kit to do Open Heart Surgery, but a plaster for a cut Finger........not a chance

 

[kay]

One would have to be carful through airports etc. as they are opiates and would certainly raise eyebrows if spotted...

More than raised eyebrows. In Greece, for example, all opiates are banned, including codeine.

 

[cap n chris]

I've sort of got this sneaking suspicion that Omnipon isn't going to be featuring in my FAK.

 

[sidewinder]

I always carry a first aid kit if I'm caving with a group but for pleasure trips I never bother because my mate always carries one.

I had a mate some years ago who used to carry tampons, condoms, tape and sterile water as his first aid kit and stuff a large survival bag down his boot.

 

[Dep]

I keep a space-blanket in the space within my helmet. It is smooth and flat and will not make any significant difference if my helmet is struck. I also have a large ‘surgical-waste’ bag which I can get completely into. Folded flat with all the air squeezed out it is about the same size as the CS bag.

The points made in this thread about the irrelevancy of ‘conventional’ first aid for caving injuries is interesting, I had never though of it like that before.

SamT said:

we were given an off the record chat by a member of a local rescue service about underground first aid. Their view was that if you were adamant on taking something underground then a plastic bag and small roll of gaffa tape would be the two most usefull things.

As andy mentioned - I can only think of two main injuries that may occure that you could actually do something about - Broken bone and sereious wound (cut/gash).

A serious bleed needs to be stemmed - this can be done with any material available (balaclava) the placcy back can be placed over this in a vain attempt to keep water/mud/grit out. then leather in gaffatape and apply pressure/elevate.

with broken bones - splints can be improvised (tackle bags/crowbar) and again plastered in gaffatape).

most other things, heart attacks/diabetics/strokes etc etc will not be helped by having a first aid kit about you.

I think in future my FAK will be rather lighter, a few plasters perhaps for niggling cuts to fingertips but that’s about it, I shall replace the volume with more calories like extra mars bars etc which are nice to ‘comfort-eat’ when waiting around. As suggested any serious dressings can be improvised as and when required. No one will mind giving the shirt of their back if their mate is bleeding to death in front of them.

And gaffer-tape is damned versatile…

Regards, Dep

 

[cap n chris]

Problem spotted: gaffer tape is useless on anything wet/damp - it totally unstickynesses (is this a word?); I therefore doubt it's going to genuinely be of any use in many caving situations.

On the surface it's great - my roll is stuck sideways down on the table, it's that sticky, but when you've got wet hands it no longer works.

 

[SamT]

I know what you mean chris. I reckon it can be more of a problem on copy/cheap rolls. Duck tape seems pretty good. I find that if you can get a complete turn round somthing then start sticking it to itself again (and then add about a thousand more turns) it usually stays put.

What would you suggest as a replacement chris.

 

[Stu]

I know what you mean chris. I reckon it can be more of a problem on copy/cheap rolls. Duck tape seems pretty good. I find that if you can get a complete turn round somthing then start sticking it to itself again (and then add about a thousand more turns) it usually stays put.

What would you suggest as a replacement chris.

I carry a small roll of a fabric based plaster. It's unaffected by water and is sticky as hell. Gaffa tape is a bit of a faff when it comes to water. Can't understand why I didn't pick up on it before. We've all but given up on it for mending our (friends) kayaks when dinted. Tend to use a turbo flamed lighter for melting repairs. Though of course this won't help in out particular scenario..... or maybe it would!!! :twisted:

 

[Ant]

always carry the survival blanket fits nicely in the helmet!!
Having basic first aid knowledge is the best way to stem incidents. The rest of the equipment you can generally improvise with what is available to you. The tape is a great bit of kit to carry nadlets hope the tampons don't get to wet before they are needed!!