Fuel bills

[PeteHall]

I'm wondering if I really need a freezer.......reckon I could work around not having one, but would miss the peas......but frozen peas are not enough reason to run a freezer ,24/7 !

I'd speculate that this would end up costing you more in the long run. Here are a few thoughts:
- Frozen food is cheaper than fresh food.
- Freezing allows cooking in bulk (for less energy) and storing.
- Freezing things helps reduce food waste.
- Freezing things reduces the need to go out to the shops so frequently.

All of the above a money savers and a freezer is very efficient, so doesn't cost you much to run. It also gives you increased resilience in the event of future supply chain problems, or other issues leading to food shortages.

 

[tomferry]

I'm wondering if I really need a freezer.......reckon I could work around not having one, but would miss the peas......but frozen peas are not enough reason to run a freezer ,24/7 !

I'd speculate that this would end up costing you more in the long run. Here are a few thoughts:
- Frozen food is cheaper than fresh food.
- Freezing allows cooking in bulk (for less energy) and storing.
- Freezing things helps reduce food waste.
- Freezing things reduces the need to go out to the shops so frequently.

All of the above a money savers and a freezer is very efficient, so doesn't cost you much to run. It also gives you increased resilience in the event of future supply chain problems, or other issues leading to food shortages.

If it?s 95% empty and you only have peas in it fill the rest with polystyrene will save money  less area to keep cold

 

[PeteHall]

I think you are better off filling the rest with boxes/ bottles of water as it has more thermal mass.

I believe that's why fridges and freezers are more efficient when full.

 

[ChrisJC]

Open the coal fields back up  I read a book the under gasification of coal I still think it?s the best way forward keep all our money in England .

Easiest option by far is to work more hours

I agree. I am sure it is only a matter of time before we hear regrets about how quickly we demolished all of the coal fired power stations!

Chris.

 

[ChrisJC]

Houses also need to be dry. And most older houses rely on some air circulation to achieve that. Modern houses often use a mini HVAC with heat exchanger and fan to reduce losses, but it is still required.

Solid stone walls are very problematic if you box them in. I am going to replaster with lime in a few rooms, and I am repointing the house with traditional lime to keep the walls drier. Once you have done the roof and windows, there is little else to be done.

Some friends of mine got sold on cavity wall insulation that was blown in. It has destroyed their house as it acted as a bridge in the brick cavity and the inside skin is now wet. It can?t dry out properly. They are screwed unless they start taking down the wall to get it out. You won?t be surprised to hear the company concerned has ceased trading.

Houses like yours need to be knocked down and replaced with a modern energy efficient construction!

I have the blown in cavity wall insulation. It's still dry...

Chris.

 

[PeteHall]

Houses like yours need to be knocked down and replaced with a modern energy efficient construction!

That's going to be even more unpopular with the Tory voter base (and most of the rest of the country) than banning log burners, so don't see anyone proposing that any time soon!

 

[pwhole]

My main computer has a 400W power supply, and if I'm working at home it's on pretty much sixteen hours a day. I can do email and stuff on the laptop (as I am now), but if I'm doing visual work the big one has to come on. That's easily my biggest electricity cost - I have plenty of tea and coffee made with a 3KW kettle too.

 

[tomferry]

If you knock all the old houses down where I l live would be only 2 left so it wouldn?t be a village then 

Issue is with log burners people are to th*ck they go and buy wood which has been imported , I watched a documentary a few nights ago about similar issues with wood harvesting.

Can?t find the exact one was similar to this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy5kbIGicrY

 

[Jopo]

We fitted solar and battery storage 2 years ago so get very little FIT - 5.8p per kW. The roof runs the electrical goods so we tend to run the domestic appliances during the day. In their wisdom the government has stopped any FIT for new installations.  We had lpg central heating with a combi boiler and have replaced it with air sourced heat pumps and hot water storage which we did not have before. Our electrical consumption has increased but we now only use lpg for cooking. I have 1400l of lpg brought before price increase so I reckon that will see me out. We don't know how much more or less the air source will cost yet but we (in Wales) have a grant paid over 7 years which is just under 50% of the installation cost (very old rads and micro bore pipes replaced). The grants end on March 31st. So far this generally mild winter we have had to use the multi fuel a couple of times as we the heating is off during the late morning afternoon. We have ample wood for the multi fuels but as a COPD sufferer I am very aware of just how polluting (according to some reports worse particulate than diesel HGV) they are and don't wish to inflict my pollution on anyone else. We use anthracite when we do use the multi fuel - bit less polluting and you don't have to get up so often.

3 bed, 3 bath (used to be a B&B) pre 1836 largish Welsh farmhouse which needs internal wall insulation later this year when we will also install more solar battery storage.

Jopo

 

[kay]

3 bed, 3 bath (used to be a B&B) pre 1836 largish Welsh farmhouse which needs internal wall insulation later this year when we will also install more solar battery storage.

Jopo

Will that cause problems (see above post re "boxing in" stone walls)?

We have internal insulation on a couple of upstairs walls with no obvious problems, now considering whether to do the problem downstairs room in the NE corner.

 

[tomferry]

Lime has always been used because of its breathing benefits and it?s flexibility to move as the ground does below the house  , if it?s a downstairs stone wall I would assume it doesn?t have any damp proof course , so the moisture has probably already left the stonework before reaching upstairs , you could check them with a cheap moisture meter ? I personally wouldn?t box in any stone walls .

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

Condensing combi boilers have efficiencies in the high 90% region.
The early ones are getting on for 15 years old now and will be needing replacing soon.
If they are replaced by a heat pump, and that is not combined with new bigger radiators and/or underfloor heating then it is unlikely the coefficient of performance will be more than 2 on a winter's day.
The overall efficiency of a fossil fuel fired power station is no more than 40%, often less. Which means that for every kW of electricity we use at home at least 2.5kW of heat (with associated carbon emission) is produced back at the power station.
So unless renewable sources are ready to take on the extra load when people get rid of condensing combi boilers, or unless they go the whole way and spend a lot of money and revamp the whole thing, there will likely be an increase in carbon emissions as the old stations have to increase output.
This at a time when extra capacity will be needed to service the demands of far more electric cars.

 

[Pitlamp]

I installed a log burner about 5 or 6 years ago. I can't remember what I spent, but it wasn't a lot and I had it all sorted over a weekend. I even got the building control officer out to sign it off. I scavenge wood from highway verges (always keep a chainsaw on the car if it's been windy), so my fuel source is virtually free.
It warms me up once when I gather it and again when I cut and split it, so by the time it goes in the fire, it's warmed me three times for free. 

There's a lot of talk about banning woodburners because of the pollution. Are you confident that you'll continue to be able to use it in the future?

I agree that wood burning stoves can be fairly polluting when not used correctly. In particular, wood with a very low moisture content should be used (either properly [and recently] kiln dried, or properly seasoned (ideally at least 2 years). Really dry wood is a delight to use; it burns really hot, ignites almost immediately and produces hardly any smoke.

There are also other important considerations such as ensuring sufficient air is being allowed in and having the flue pipe professiionally cleaned regularly (which makes sense for other reasons).

Stoves have other less tangible environmental benefits. For example mine always has a half gallon farmhouse kettle on it. Hot water for making brews goes in the electric kettle from this, so far less electricity is used. Similarly, hot water for cooking veg etc comes from the farmhouse kettle. I'll often use hot water from the stove kettle directly to get washed & shaved in a morning - or for washing up in the sink after a meal. (No, I aint got one of these machines for washing the dishes, so no carbon footprint from that.) So the woodburner greatly reduces carbon footprint of many other appliances in the house.

I installed a wood burner because we get power cuts fairly often. So central heating doesn't work - and obviously electric heating isn't possible. During Storm Arwen, for example, I was without power for 2 days. It was bitterly cold and I'm sure I'd have had several frozen pipes if it wasn't for the wood burner taking the chill off the whole house. (I'm quite happy just sticking extra fleeces on, with wooly hat, gloves and a buff to keep warm - but this does nowt for vulnerable pipes.) I know an elderly resident of Clapham who had no power for a week in the wake of Storm Arwen. She's far from young and, without her wood burner, could easily have died of hypothermia.

The answer, perhaps, is to find a way to educate wood burning stove users - not ban stoves outright. Especially for vulnerable households in out of the way places who are low on the priority list for getting power back on in extreme weather. Unlike most alternatives, a wood burner has zero carbon footprint - if scrounged wood is seasoned, you get the energy out by burning it; if it's left to decompose the carbon dioxide still goes into the atmosphere due to bacterial and fungal respiration - and all the energy locked up in the wood is wasted.

Could it be that the government is not in favour of wood burners because they can't have any tax grab from scrounged wood?  :-\

 

[PeteHall]

In particular, wood with a very low moisture content should be used (either properly [and recently] kiln dried, or properly seasoned (ideally at least 2 years).

Doesn't kiln drying use a lot of energy? Proper seasoning seems the best option if you have space. I'm fortunate enough to have a large car port that fits my Land Rover, a large log pile (over 2 years supply) and still leaves space to dry my caving kit

No, I aint got one of these machines for washing the dishes, so no carbon footprint from that.

I don't have one either, but apparently a dishwasher uses less energy, due to using less water than washing up by hand. I've not seen the evidence for it and presumably depends on how you wash up, but t is an oft-quoted claim.

Unlike most alternatives, a wood burner has zero carbon footprint - if scrounged wood is seasoned, you get the energy out by burning it; if it's left to decompose the carbon dioxide still goes into the atmosphere due to bacterial and fungal respiration - and all the energy locked up in the wood is wasted.

I think a lot of the arguments against using wood burning stoves hinge on particulate polution affecting air quality, rather than simply carbon.

Needless to say, I wholeheartedly agree with everything else you have said, but I'd also add that other than the practical benefits, a wood burning stove is just a really nice thing to have in the house. It's impossible not to smile walking into a room  with a burning stove dancing in the fireplace and that boost to mood/ morale/ mental heath has to be worth something too.

Then there are the physical and mental health benefits of cutting and splitting the logs. Again, I always find myself smiling while swinging a chainsaw or axe. Clich?d as it might sound, gathering and preparing wood for the fire arouses the hunter-gatherer brain and a sense of being closer to nature. It's a similar pleasure to caving in some ways. 

Plus there are the energy savings watching "cave TV" (the fire) rather than watching an energy consuming conventional TV (not that I have one of those anyway).

 

[Pitlamp]

I'd like to add to my most recent post above; I fully understand that some people have lung disorders which are affected by carbon based fuel combustion emissions. A good friend of mine who lived here in the Dales suffered from idiopathic pulmonary sclerosis, for many years. Polluted air caused him to have persistent and painful coughing fits. He always reckoned he knew when the wind was from the west because he'd feel more ill. The most likely cause of that was emissions from vehicles on the M6 motorway, a long way away.

I never heard him complain about wood burning stoves locally being a problem. (That might of course, be because in a rural area there are many experienced stove users who use them properly, so minimal smoke is produced.)

A few answers to Pete's points immediately above; yes, natural seasoning is more environmentally friendly than kiln drying. A good way of finishing the final seasoning is to have a supply of wood stacked next to the stove itself. With good stock rotation you can be burning very dry wood, constantly.

If washing up by hand uses kettle water heated by a woodburner using scrounged (seasoned) wood then it has zero carbon footprint - always better than any electrically powered dishwasher.

Fully agree - particulate polluition and carbon emissions are two separate issues. But both are massively ameliorated by ensuring all wood burned is properly dried.

As for a wood burner being a nice thing to have, you're preaching to the converted here. Early this morning I went for a run over an icy but still boggy ingleborough, with a bitterly cold wind blowing. On arriving home I revved up the stove, opened the door and toasted my frozen feet whilst glugging down a pint of Horlicks (my favourite winter recovery drink). It was magic - and the icing on the cake was that I'd seen the Brocken Spectre as well!

My grandma would have gone nuts at this - she was always on about getting chilblains. It never bothered my sister when she was very young; she used to get up early in winter so she could sit with her feet in the bottom oven of the Aga!

 

[Loki]

https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/how-to-calculate-household-appliance-energy-cost/

Interesting the elec shower wasn?t foremost in my thoughts until now.

 

[ChrisJC]

The problem with a lot of that is that the 'waste' energy is heat. So your house is heated up.
In the summer, this is indeed a waste of energy, but for 50% of the year when you are using your heating, the energy is not wasted at all.

So by switching to 'energy saving lightbulbs', your heating bill will go up.

Chris.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I'm very pleased to see you write that, I've mentioned that to others and been pooh poohed as it hadn't fitted the dogma

 

[Chocolate fireguard]

That will be true if you cut down on any electrical useage.
I imagine that all the domestic electrical energy you use will be in the form of heat within a second or so of it ceasing to be in the form of electrical energy.
I assume you don't have a stair lift.

 

[braveduck]

They must be short of gas in China . The Olympic flame for the games is the smallest ever !