Giant's Hole Payment Box Vandalism

[paul]

Paying online, etc means the owner has no idea if anyone parked there has paid or not.

Even if cheques are used the farmer will be none the wiser as to who has paid and who hasn't unless he/she is constantly watching the car park. Does the farmer enforce payment anyway? It's more of an honest box isn't it?

The owner requests payments are put into envelopes which are provided and to write car registration numbers on the envelope (hence a quick spot check will show up those who haven't paid...). So, if the envelope contains cash or cheque makes no difference except to thieves.

 

[bubba]

An remote booking system could easily have the car reg on too...

 

[paul]

An remote booking system could easily have the car reg on too...

Can you really imagine that the land owner would prefer the expense and hassle of an on-line system as compared to just turning up occasionally with a key and opening a box to collect his payments?

I can't.

 

[bubba]

You never know, the farmer might be a spoddy IT geek! But no, not really although at least he might get his money that way

 

[Stu]

I wouldn't have thought losing access to the cave is that likely; I'd guess it's not a bad pocket money earner for the owner. In the old days we used to pay at the farm (and get changed in the barn) - is this not viable anymore (the paying not the changing)?

Maybe the owner doesn't live there?

Irrelevant. If they don't, the money/cheques are being passed on with the present system. Presumably the old system was changed because those living at the farm didn't want cavers knocking on their door. Is this any worse than attracting visiting idiots (and I don't include cavers in that generalisation!!) onto their land?

 

[Brendan]

If the payment box was put next to the farm it may act as more of a deterrent for the thieves,
as the farmer may well notice someone connecting their car up to the front of the farmhouse.
Obviously that depends on the farmers goodwill. If it was a box there would be no need to knock at
the farm and disturb them.
I do like the idea of a sting though.

 

[Jenny P]

Various suggestions have been made to the owner recently as to how payment might be made more secure, given that he has insisted that he does not want cavers calling at the farm itself.  He has always insisted in the past that he wanted payment into a box by the parking site and has said that he is happy to have cheques made payable to "Peakshill Farm".

However, the latest box is now smashed so there is nowhere to place your cheques if you do want to pay.  The owner is well aware that it isn't cavers doing the thieving as plenty of cavers have put cheques in the box - cavers are the "good guys" at the moment and we'd like to keep it that way.  He is going to be approached again to see if some other system can be worked out which will be acceptable to him and still allow cavers hassle-free access. 

DCA is doing its best to sort it, with the help of various cavers, so keep an eye on this space for future news.

 

[bubba]

I suspect that next time the thieves strike, they will just destroy the cheques out of spite.

 

[matthewjc]

I was going to pay by cheque next time im at Giants but then a slight worry, if a cheque was used and stolen, this would give the theives my name, bank account no. and sort code details - which i guess could possibly be used by a crook if passed on or the theif is in the know..?

Obviosley a secure solution for payment is needed, but am a bit concerned about having a cheque stolen, which could end up anywhere.

Cheers
Matt

 

[bubba]

Yeah, it's not a good idea to have your bank account details plus signature lying about...

 

[Jenny P]

One person who paid by cheque had the cheque returned to them later, having been found in the street in Buxton; presumably it had been taken from the box along with cash, found to be useless to the thieves and thrown away!  So the bozos doing the thieving are after the easy money and can't do anything with a cheque - your cheque can never be cashed so the owner loses out and you gain. 

It seems likely that it's the same berks every time who have cottoned on to what they are counting as their own private gold mine.  Somebody suggested a stake-out, but that's only worth it if there is an intact box in place.  In that case Sunday night would be a good bet ...

In the mean time, DCA will continue to try to seek a solution acceptable to the owner and with minimum hassle for cavers.

 

[Glenn]

Sorry if this is too obvious or has been suggested before, but is it not possible to construct a small box out of welded steel plate with a (welded) hinged door (and heavy duty lock). The door just needs a narrow slot to accept coins or cheques. The steel box could then be securley bolted and cemented into the wall.

I know that there is sufficient experience and facilities in the Peak to do this.

Cheers,

Glenn

 

[ditzy 24//7]

If the payment box was put next to the farm it may act as more of a deterrent for the thieves,
as the farmer may well notice someone connecting their car up to the front of the farmhouse.
Obviously that depends on the farmers goodwill. If it was a box there would be no need to knock at
the farm and disturb them.
I do like the idea of a sting though.

there were questions a wile back to why people dont jsut post them through the farmhouse door.
as far as i know it was because it was cause too much attraction to the house itself and this may be broken into.
so having a box by the house may not be wanted next to the house for the same reason.
been up to the farm house before , had his guard dogs round the back,didnt see them but could hear them!
went up to the house to see if the farmer was in because one of his sheep was being strangled by barb wire. the farmer obviously wasnt there,but luckily we managed to cut it off it using a pen knife.

 

[Jenny P]

Sorry if this is too obvious or has been suggested before, but is it not possible to construct a small box out of welded steel plate with a (welded) hinged door (and heavy duty lock). The door just needs a narrow slot to accept coins or cheques. The steel box could then be securley bolted and cemented into the wall.

It has been suggested to the owner but he preferred to provide his own box.  Maybe we'll suggest it again.

 

[matthewjc]

Was down Giants yesterday and noticed the latest was a metal box cemented in to the wall but this has had the door pulled off (albiet a thin one), realisticly any sort of unmanned payment box at the parking area will be an easy target and always vunerable, if the theives cant get the door off the next one they will probably just remove the box from the wall (chain through the payment slot and tow with a car etc) with all the resulting damage. It maybe best for the farmer to look at a payment method away from the site, which i know would be more hassle, but at least the farmer would get his cash and the neds who have been at it would not get their smack money.

Matt

 

[Les W]

A steel box concreted in below ground level with a tube up through the wall to put the money in would be relatively secure. A bit like a floor safe.
My 2p worth. 

 

[graham]

A steel box concreted in below ground level with a tube up through the wall to put the money in would be relatively secure. A bit like a floor safe.
My 2p worth. 

How does the landowner get the money out, Les? If he has a way in then the villains have a way in as well.

 

[Brendan]

A steel box concreted in below ground level with a tube up through the wall to put the money in would be relatively secure. A bit like a floor safe.
My 2p worth. 

How does the landowner get the money out, Les? If he has a way in then the villains have a way in as well.

Once a year, with a digger

 

[Cats]

The new payment safe has now been cemented into the wall and will hopefully be too much of a challenge to the scallies.

 

[Les W]

The new payment safe has now been cemented into the wall and will hopefully be too much of a challenge to the scallies.

It looks quite impressive.