Important motion for the BCA AGM

[droid]

Yes, there's been a lot of sense spoken here.

However, the problem is that those who wield the power probably won't read it.

These ideas need to be spoken in the arena where they can get a proper hearing: BCA AGMs.

So people need to attend, despite the inconvienience of travelling. It might be a right royal pain in the arse, but worth it?

 

[badger]

droid there is quite a few on here that are on BCA council. so some of what is said is taken on board

 

[droid]

That's good to hear.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Yes, there's been a lot of sense spoken here.

However, the problem is that those who wield the power probably won't read it.

These ideas need to be spoken in the arena where they can get a proper hearing: BCA AGMs.

So people need to attend, despite the inconvienience of travelling. It might be a right royal pain in the arse, but worth it?

I've been to two BCA AGMs (I'm sure many have been to many more). The first involved lots of 'discussion'. The end results were inconclusive, unproductive and did not represent the majority of opinion in the UK. The other involved very little discussion as virtually everyone at the meeting wanted to vote through the constitutional amendments and get out of there.

The AGM of a 6000-odd member organization is far too late to start discussing things. Things need to be discussed and a consensus built long before motions ever reach the AGM. The only thing that should really happen at a good efficient AGM is voting, and that should be set up so as to allow non-attendees to vote anyway. Proposals need to be carefully considered, researched, discussed, modified and improved. This will not happen well if it depends on what 40-odd unprepared people can knock together, based on amending some original motion, in 10 minutes or so at an AGM. I would require that all motions are proposed by either the council or signed by 20 individual members, submitted prior to the previous BCA council meeting, and then discussed for amendments at that council meeting and at meetings of ordinary members run through the regional councils (like the BMC area meets). Only then should a revised motion be submitted for voting at the AGM (including electronic voting). This gives people time to think things through...

 

[mrodoc]

I have just discovered HE, which I think cavers agree is a worthwhile event, has to hire in display boards every year at (so I am told) a cost of ?1000. With the ?200K+ money in the budget what about buying some and loaning them out to caver doing presentations etc. That would be useful in promoting caving.

 

[Bob Mehew]

I have just discovered HE, which I think cavers agree is a worthwhile event, has to hire in display boards every year at (so I am told) a cost of ?1000.

Been there and got the badge back in the 90s.  Where do you store them at low cost (transport included)? 

 

[complex]

I have just discovered HE, which I think cavers agree is a worthwhile event, has to hire in display boards every year at (so I am told) a cost of ?1000. With the ?200K+ money in the budget what about buying some and loaning them out to caver doing presentations etc. That would be useful in promoting caving.

Hidden Earth (or at least the Hidden Earth bar) usually makes a small surplus (resulting in occasional donations to good causes such as Ghar Parau Foundation). I'm sure that if the Hidden Earth team decided that it was better to own display boards (instead of hiring them) they would have sorted it by now.

 

[Les W]

I have just discovered HE, which I think cavers agree is a worthwhile event, has to hire in display boards every year at (so I am told) a cost of ?1000. With the ?200K+ money in the budget what about buying some and loaning them out to caver doing presentations etc. That would be useful in promoting caving.

Hidden Earth (or at least the Hidden Earth bar) usually makes a small surplus (resulting in occasional donations to good causes such as Ghar Parau Foundation). I'm sure that if the Hidden Earth team decided that it was better to own display boards (instead of hiring them) they would have sorted it by now.

As has been pointed out, Hidden Earth could, easily own the display boards but that isn't the main cost of them. They have to be stored, in a dry, secure environment and then transported to and from site (wherever that is). It also requires some skilled volunteers to assemble them on site and take them down after.
It suits Hidden Earth to contract this out as we then get high quality display boards that are somebody else's problem.
BCRA used to own boards but they were in very poor condition after only a couple of years and had to be disposed of. Owning them is a false economy for an organisation like HE.

 

[darren]

Since this thread has already been hijacked.

Why isn't the BCA AGM at Hidden Earth?

 

[Tommy]

Since this thread has already been hijacked.

Why isn't the BCA AGM at Hidden Earth?

Why detract from an otherwise pleasant weekend?

I jest, but it's likely the fact that there would simply be too much to pack in over the course of 2 and a bit days.

 

[Jenny P]

Don't forget that BCRA used to have its AGM at HE but has now decided to make this a separate event.

The BCA AGM is rather a different sort of a meeting anyway because, at the moment, it is a place where things can be discussed at some length, rather than somewhere to formally agree points which have been discussed at length beforehand.  That's not to say that it may need not to work differently in the future - it's just how it works now.

BCA is a HUGE improvement on NCA, which was held to ransom on a number of occasions by a regional council threatening to walk out and thus render the meeting inquorate!  We've stopped that game but have a fair way to go before the organisation is really efficient - probably because cavers aren't inherently very "efficient" people at working in groups.  The idea of rotating the AGM around the regions and having a "Party Weekend" with caving, entertainment, stomp, food, etc. all on site was a good one.  Sadly, the northern cavers don't seem to want to go to the south for a caving weekend and the southern cavers don't all want to go north - so the views expressed at AGMs can almost oscillate between extremes.

Most of the regional councils work well because they are all involved in the same or very similar problems at a local level.  There are possible solutions as to how to extend this to a national level and part of it, I am sure, is the idea of working groups to deal with particular issues - though we do have this already with a mix of Standing Committees and Working Groups.  What BCA should not be doing is dealing with local issues - that's for the local cavers to sort out for themselves in line with how their region normally operates - and don't forget that access issues can be totally different across the regions and need to be dealt with in different ways.  It cannot be "one size fits all".

I'm sure everyone involved in "running" BCA would love it to be more efficient and representative - but no-one seems to agree on how best to get to this position.  I guess we just have to keep on trying to get it right and refining how BCA works - but remember that good will is all and nothing can be done if you don't have this good will.

 

[Badlad]

Update on the above motion;

?BCA to establish a ?working group? to determine a new mission and vision for the organisation.  To outline a strategy to achieve this vision and make recommendations for any changes to the organisations structure and constitution.  The group should be made up of a majority of younger cavers from the constituent bodies, regions and membership under an established convener agreed by council.  The group should aim to be established within six months (by the January council meeting) and should report on recommendations to the 2020 AGM.?

The motion was amended very slightly to say "This AGM instructs council to establish a working group..." otherwise it was passed by a large majority and handed over to the council meeting which followed the AGM.

There was some confusion whether BCA was being asked to establish two working groups with similar remits.  Two possible ways forward had been discussed at council with no definitive conclusion reached.  Some moves had already been made to set up a group just to look at tweaking anomalies in the constitution.  Good sense prevailed and council opted for a single group to look at a future vision and direction for BCA and then make proposals to change the constitution accordingly.  The title of the group was something like the 'vision and constitution reform group'.  When it came to finding a convener for the group Andy Eavis put himself forward and this seemed likely to succeed until Hellie Adams (ex-CHECC chair and council member) also volunteered.  In the end the meeting chose Hellie. 

My own thoughts was this was a choice of the experience of the establishment verses the progressive enthusiasm of the younger generation.  Both would have been good but I'm really inspired by councils choice.  Hellie you have my full support for what that is worth.  Hellie must now pull together her team and bring to council suggested terms of reference although I guess they are mostly determined in the motion.

A good day for BCA IMO