"Improvements"

[andymorgan]

Surely you wear a belt though. And dont give it any of that I dont carry a lead battery therefore I dont need a belt rubbish. Everyone needs a belt. How do you drag tackle bags otherwise.

Yes I do wear a belt. I was thinking about this last night after I wrote my post and what I wrote was b***ocks . My suit didn't go around my ankles because of ....... my belt. Remebering correctly it was the sleeves that were dragging on the ground and I don't see how braces would make a difference to this, unless it is easier to tuck the sleeves into the trouser legs with braces? However I think the braces are designed for wearing the suits at you waist, so there must be some advantage.
Talking to others I think the Dragon suits I think are perhaps a little more robust than the Warmac suits and have another nice touch of a fleece lined collar.

Everyone needs a belt. How do you drag tackle bags otherwise

Some caves you don't need tackle bags for, and not just the small ones! I always use a belt though anyway: it keeps the suit in at the waist so the front doesn't constantly drag along the floor and wear through.

 

[SamT]

Talking to others I think the Dragon suits I think are perhaps a little more robust than the Warmac suits and have another nice touch of a fleece lined collar.

am excited at the prospect. Bagshawe certainly takes its toll on suits. I get through 1.5 warmbacs a year (ish) and Ive seen other suits barley last a trip. Warmbacs are the only option really. Must have a look at these dragon ones though.

Some caves you don't need tackle bags for, and not just the small ones!

Granted. But as you say - its always better wo wear one IMHO. You never know what might turn up.

 

[andymorgan]

By 'talking to others' I think one of them was Cap'n Chris. Perhaps Chris may be able to give a users opinion of Dragon v Warmbac rather than my hearsay!

Sorry Johnny for going off tropic with my drivel!

 

[SamT]

*Moved over from the Chest harness thread

In terms of *oversuit* material, we do sometimes seem to take backwards steps - some modern PVC suits seem noticeably less hardwearing than older ones.
That's not necessarily a dig at the suit-makers - if the range of available material changes, they may be buying the best stuff they can find.

I'm sure there are other pieces of kit that could be made more hardwearing for a small extra cost, but that wouldn't necessarily be a smart move for a manufacturer who sells replacements every few years, especially in areas where they have little competition.

Cynic... leave 'em alone I say! They have mouths to feed too you know!! :twisted:

It's not necessarily *cynical*, just *realistic*.

With 'hardening' gear, (taking a simple situation where the hardening doesn't have significant drawbacks for the user) there are two possibilities.

Firstly, if there is little competition, unless you increase prices in line with extended lifetime, you will probably lose out financially in the long run, and if people seem generally happy with the current gear, and aren't beating down your door demanding hardier stuff, why bother changing?

If you were the only maker of small halogen bulbs, and didn't have many complaints about short lifetimes, and one of your engineers came to you and said they'd found a way to make bulbs last twice as long for 20% extra cost, and suggested you sold the new design at 20% above the old price, would you consider taking them up on their suggestion for the good of the planet?


On the other hand, if there *is* competition, if your hardier gear is noticably more expensive, then unless you can reliably claim in advance that your new gear is more hardwearing than your competitor's, or afford to sit it out long enough for word-of-mouth to spread, you may end up losing business to other people for months or even years.

Imagine if someone made PVC oversuits that were just as comfortable to wear, and lasted 4 times longer than regular ones, but were £200. Until word got around that they were nearly indestructible, how many would they sell?

 

[cucc Paul]

If you don't wear a belt... how are people supposed to strap things to you if they need to assisst you out... even on quite flat caves you can sprain ankles etc... and may need slings attaching to you so they can pull/assisst you up boulders climbs etc.... last thing a rescue party need is to find some one with only half the basic kit

 

[Cave_Troll]

If i'm not wearing a harness i wear a lightweight belt to "stop my trousers falling down" (ie stop the crotch of my suit slipping down and making walking difficult)

It is in no way heavy enough to pull me out of anything.

I think requiring people to wear a full strength belt to aid Rescue pulling you out is a little extreme.
I certainly would not be a bit annoyed or surprised if i came to be in a Rescue party that found someone without a belt on.

You might find it causes more problems by getting caught on things.

 

[Katie]

You might find it causes more problems by getting caught on things.

I normally where my belt if not in a harness, unless i am going to my usual dig cos it is all very small and awkard..... and about 50 metres of caving so it gets in the way more then it helps! And as yopu can only stand up (never mind walk!) in two places you dont need to worry about ur oversuit moving down

 

[potholer]

I wear my retired sit-harness most of the time when digging. It doesn't get in the way, and helps keep my baggy oversuit contained, as well as being good for dragging gear through crawls.

 

[cavemancolumbus]

dragon undersuits could do with a big chunky zip instead of a little one that gets clogged up and is an arse to undo.
What do you reckon?

 

[SamT]

big zips are always better imho