Insurance for trips

[Fjell]

The snowcard max insurance for two of us for annual with a 60 day trip limit incl the US is £800. It would be £650 if we were younger. A third less just for Europe.

Max is doing trips in explored caves in countries with cave rescue, Extreme is unexplored with cave rescue. I doubt many people would take the Extreme level as an annual policy, although it is often not much different to a short one.

There is no acceptable cave rescue outside of Europe, US, Canada, Australia and NZ. You need specialist insurance, and in that case the BCA £150k might not be enough, maybe should be a million. We previously explored in several countries without either rescue or insurance cover, just the reality. We have too many responsibilities to do that these days: it’s not the money, it’s the not being around any more that is the issue. We had a long period of trying to avoid dying at the same time and leaving the kids on their own, but they are allegedly grown-ups now.

 

[darren]

I've been looking at sportscover direct.

This seems identical to snowcard, including price. But the wording for pre exciting Medical Conditions is slightly different.

In some circumstances snowcard wording is best in other circumstances spirtscover direct seems better.

 

[darren]

The thing that stops me using BCA is the 2 prescribed medications limit. Snowcard it is 2 per illness, with only certain illness included.

 

[mikem]

Interesting, that varies hugely from what I'm shown on the website when I stick my details in for a quote. I wonder whether I'm particularly risky, or they haven't updated their website, or they haven't updated their (very up to date) policy wording...?

My guess would be that bigger SAR amounts are for worldwide (or US) trips & insurers don't deem that much necessary for Europe.

TrueTraveller getting good reviews on TrustPilot from claimants, but it probably hasn't been tested by cavers. However, what Max suggests isn't what they define as expedition stuff, as not exploratory. CoverForYou also gets a high rating, but I didn't get as far as anyone trying to claim

 

[andrewmcleod]

The thing that stops me using BCA is the 2 prescribed medications limit. Snowcard it is 2 per illness, with only certain illness included.

There isn't a 'limit' on the BCA cover; you just have to phone the medical screening phone number. Have you tried phoning them for a quote?

If anyone is wondering why I'm so keen for people to actually try the BCA insurance, there are two reasons:
1) because I want to save people money and I haven't heard of anyone yet who's got a cheaper price from Snowcard
2) because I want the BCA exped insurance to keep going.

Getting exped insurance in some countries is very difficult, and we are lucky that we have a policy that _definitely_ covers caving expeditions and Snowcard who _probably_ cover caving expeditions (if they aren't too organized). The BCA policy was set up because it was seen as a Good Thing to have a robust insurance policy that would definitely cover exped cavers even if Snowcard got too expensive/stopped doing exploratory caving/expeditions etc.

Personally in the event of an accident I don't want to be worried about whether the insurance will cover it or not. I have joined an Austrian caving club which means I get their insurance, but I've chosen to get the BCA cover anyway because the Austrian insurance doesn't cover SAR costs in the event of a missed callout etc. or if you have a medical issue in the cave (rather than an accident), plus the insured amount is quite low. Always read the terms and conditions...

 

[aricooperdavis]

Interesting, that varies hugely from what I'm shown on the website when I stick my details in for a quote. I wonder whether I'm particularly risky, or they haven't updated their website, or they haven't updated their (very up to date) policy wording...?

Update: I've just called True Traveller and they haven't updated their website, the higher cover amounts are accurate.

 

[aricooperdavis]

Based on my quotes, the BCA cover is better than True Traveller Plus in terms of the ratio of policy cost to insured risk value. However, so that I'm comparing like-for-like, I've had to add the additional baggage and winter sports cover options to the True Traveller Plus policy which pushes up the price. If you ignore the winter sports cover then True Traveller Plus is slightly better value for money than the BCA travel insurance for me (although it doesn't cover exploratory caving). Horses for courses.

 

[Fjell]

It’s actually a bit annoying for me because for normal travel insurance we get decent annual cover for ”free” via my Amex card. It doesn’t cover caving and canyoning though, but it does cover things like off piste skiing which are apparently safer (not). And if you are going for 6-7 weeks it’s hard to reliably get cover for the shorter periods you might be going caving or canyoning. I am actually not bothered in Europe given we also have the NHS cover still, but I am in the US for medical. Ironically SAR will be free in the US.

Incidentally, Amex has a 90 day trip limit, which is good. And they also cover hire car insurance excess.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Which level of cover did you get from Snowcard (and what maximum length of trip, remembering that you have to return to the UK between them)? Most people I have spoken to have found the BCA cover cheaper. Snowcard's prices have gone up a lot in the last 5 years, partly because each of the caving categories seems to have jumped up an activity level.

Also (because I am genuinely curious) what did you find confusing about the BCA one? I admit that it's not as flashy and organized as Snowcard which can quote you online, and I've heard plenty of people complain they never got a response to the online form thing (although I always have), but you can get a policy immediately over the phone without too much trouble (and I say that as a person who avoids hates phoning people and avoids it at all costs).

Also also, does anything you have done constitute an organized expedition which they _might_ not cover? I used to use Snowcard (when there wasn't really an alternative) but have stopped doing so because I have no confidence they will cover a caving expedition, based on their policy wording and FAQs.

I just got 3 weeks of European cover from the BCA for about £75, which is not pleasant but not too bad.

Last year I got an annual worldwide (except US, Canada, Caribbean) policy with 45 day limit for just over £240. I'm sure an annual European policy would come in quite a bit cheaper.

I got 45 day trip limit and Max Adventure which was £190 so pretty good deal. But then I realised that might not cover the Alpine mountaineering so I'm going to upgrade it to Extreme Adventure which will cost an extra £90. The caving was all very clear and is covered fine by max, it was the mountaineering that caused a problem. After a very confusing chain of emails in which I asked them a simple question, but never got a straight answer, they seem to have said that what I'm doing is covered under Max but their answer has been very convoluted so I'm not sure I'm willing to risk it and might have to upgrade to Extreme anyway. Max covers alpine hiking and glacier travel but Extreme covers alpine mountaineering and they seemed incapable of clarifying how they define the difference between these.

I'm not doing any exploratory caving so if that's what you mean by 'organised expedition' I should be fine. Although Snowcard did say they'd cover exploratory caving anyway.

BCA one was very complex and tedious to have to get loads of different quotes spamming my email inbox and made it much trickier to compare with other options ie. Snowcard. It was hard to remember what options I'd put through in the previous quote etc and took a lot longer to compare things like, single trip covers vs annual multi trip, whereas this was very easy to do with Snowcard.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Also, in terms of what is cheaper, I actually found Snowcard cheaper before this mountaineering debacle hence why I went with it. Snowcard was £190 for the year. The cheapest option with BCA for me was something like £230 for the year.

 

[darren]

There isn't a 'limit' on the BCA cover; you just have to phone the medical screening phone number. Have you tried phoning them for a quote?

Why would I try phoning them?

1. I don't like phoning people, even people I know.
2. There is company offering to cover me, no more questions asked. If I phone another company that doesn't automatically cover me, there is always the possibility, however unlikely, that they will decide not to insure me. This would likely be a nightmare as I would have to declare this on future applications. Why take the risk?

 

[darren]

Before I start. DO NOT TRAVEL UNINSURED.

What happens if you are uninsured.

Would you be rescued?
Does reciprocal (OLD EHIC) health cover get you to hospital and treatment?
Somehow get home after hospital discharge.
Does UK bankruptcy cancel international debts? If you have few assets this is an option.
As you may not have authorised a lot of the costs can you challenge them on an item by item basis as not really necessary or excessive? You could in the UK.

We keep being told (rightly) to never go uninsured. I always tell my duaghter this when she goes abroad. We keep being told of the nightmare consequences of no insurance. It would just be nice to be find out what they are.

How much worse are the consequences than moped hire, banana boat rides or camel rides that are frequently not covered by standard holiday cover.

 

[ChrisB]

It would just be nice to be find out what they are.

It might not be very nice. The climber in the bed next to me in Chamonix hospital had no insurance or EHIC and while they did treat his injuries (and billed him later), since they had no certainty of recovering their costs anything 'optional' like painkillers was not provided.

 

[Badlad]

I was on a expedition to Spain once. A guy on that trip was initially insured but then decided to stay out longer and so his insurance expired. He did a bit of climbing on a local crag, fell and broke his back. Hospitals looked after him and the expedition only had to pay for a private ambulance to move him from one hospital to another. The problem was getting him home. His parents had to pay over 20k for a private air ambulance.

 

[darren]

It might not be very nice. The climber in the bed next to me in Chamonix hospital had no insurance or EHIC and while they did treat his injuries (and billed him later), since they had no certainty of recovering their costs anything 'optional' like painkillers was not provided.

Thanks, thats nice to know 😁