Jammer safety leash

[SamT]

do you attach your jammer safety leash to the bottom or top of your D mallion.

I used to attach it to the bottom with a smaller mallion (which could then be used as a spanner to nip up the main D)

However I swapped back round to the top for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, on a long ascent the small 'spanner' mallion actually undid my main D :shock: (I swear I'd done it up properly before setting off)

Also - whilst aiding, rigging etc and particularly on traverses/ long slopes you sometimes want to clip your hand jammer and use it to lean off. if its attached at the bottom your harness gets all twisted.

What does everbody else do. :?:

 

[SamT]

Blimey - just seen this too

nearly every one I know uses a right handed jammer

 

[SamT]

And this :!: :!:

 

[underground]

Hmm, I usually use my small maillon on the bottom as you described and it can be a pain to lean off in that manner.... maybe I'll be rethinking then.

That picture! (if it's not visible, rightclick the red cross and choose properties, then copy the url from there into a new browser window to view) :shock: :shock:

I was told once that it's good practice to let the Croll 'click' against the hand jammer so you know it's at the right length!!!! :? :roll:

 

[bubba]

Hmmmm.....that looks a bit unhealthy - I'll stick to my carabiner which hopefully wouldn't suffer from the same problem due to it's width.

 

[Johnny]

A point to note is that Petzl recommend you attach your Go, sorry, Stop oriented with the gate facing you and that you check it is closed before launch.

I agree that attaching the hand jammer on the bottom of the D is a pants idea.

 

[Brendan]

I attach to the top. Surely by attaching to the bottom as well as undoing your D ring (which I manage quite well just by sheer incompetence ) it causes the D ring to twist every time you prussik, driving it into your pelvis, which can't be comfortable.

 

[Titch98]

Bit of a pattern going on here me thinks.................

Top of central, well away from the screw gate, right-hand side of Croll jammer (cowstails to left.....). I also use a screwgate krab to attach rope to Stop descender as opposed to MR's. Aint had no problems yet...........

:worthy:

 

[paul]

I attach to the top. Surely by attaching to the bottom as well as undoing your D ring (which I manage quite well just by sheer incompetence ) it causes the D ring to twist every time you prussik, driving it into your pelvis, which can't be comfortable.

Until last night, I used the maillon at the bottom. Now I know why the central maillon sometimes loosens a bit! I've swapped back to a small screwgate, still at the bottom.

I find if you clip the safety to the bottom it leaves more room on top for everything else. My safety is quite long: I can just reach it when hinging from th etop jammer so under normal prusiking it is nowhere near becoming tight. It also helps when passing knots on the descent not having the safety link too short.

 

[Titch98]

Just out of interest and in no way a knock on Andy Sparrow, but in Cave Safe 3 - SRT and Advanced Rope Work, in the section "Kitting Up", it is explained and clearly shown that the Jammer safety is connected to the UNDERSIDE of the Central Maillon.

Maybe in light of people's experiences and other forms of information, this technique should be revised?

This is a perfect example to novices of gaining SRT training through a qualified and experienced instructor and to avoid "self-teach" methods from books and videos............although correct, they are not always the safest or most reliable.

 

[bubba]

All my stuff sits on the topside of the central D maillon.

Left to right:

- Cowstails
- Screwgate for Stop
- Chest Jammer
- Hand Jammer safety.

The only things that gets clipped to the bottom would be a donkey's dick leading to a tackle bag, and that's always on a snaplink crab.

 

[SamT]

Exactly the same - when I started caving I dug out an old climbing video that Id taped off the telly - it was an episode of Equinox - it had some caving on too. Mainly to do with developments in srt. It had Nigel Atkins doing a run down of an SRT rig and he too clearly showed the safty leash being clipped in the bottom with a smaller mallion with an explanation of how it can be used as a spanner etc.

So thats how I set up mine.
Later on club members pointed out the twisting phenom. and then following the undo'ing incident I swapped it to the top.

Our club then went on a day with Nigel (he's a member) covering rescue techniques and advanced SRT etc and we all had a debate about it. Our argument was about loading the jammer via the leash resulting in the D twisting your entire harness (during rigging/exploring etc) and he insisted that you should never get into a situation where you load the jammer via the leash - but that is 'by the book' which sometimes doesnt apply when you in new territory down derbyshire leadmines :shock: .

We all agreed to disagee in the end as he conceeded that there is no reason why it cant be on the top other than crowding.

 

[bubba]

Our argument was about loading the jammer via the leash resulting in the D twisting your entire harness

That's why there's no way I'd ever attach to the bottom. If your harness was loaded up in such a way it could become a real bitch to adjust/undo/etc other parts of the rig as it'd would all then be twisted in to your body.

 

[al]

Putting everything up top does get quite crowded if you also add in a braking krab (as well as cowstails, screwgate, Croll and safety backup) - which is sometimes necessary even with a Stop.

And I'd be wary of using snaplinks to dangle gear from your big D - I had to retrieve a tacklebag from down the crabwalk once after doing that. I prefer screwgates for this now.

 

[bubba]

Using a snaplink can also work to your advantage sometimes as well. I got completely stuck in the narrowest part of the narrows in Nettle Pot when the tackle bag had become caught up in the re-belay just below the Narrows.
I could after much squirming reach down and just about undo the snaplink. If it had been a screwgate I'd have had way more trouble.

 

[Ann]

:shock: I had a problem over Xmas as per the Jammer illustration. Luckily when they jammed I was near a ledge so I managed to get my weight off the rope enough to free the jammers. I was in the middle of quite a big pitch and have still not managed to think up how I would have got myself out of the predicament if the ledge wasn't close enough. Any ideas in case I am not so lucky next time? :wink:

 

[Huw Groucutt]

panic and shout for help maybe?

 

[Stu]

i have it set uo so the croll just touches the bottom of the jammer handle even when fully standing.

 

[Ann]

panic and shout for help maybe?

Thanks - so useful - try not to go for panicking although a few choice words usually help when in impossible situations.

 

[Brendan]

Ann - DCRO will rescue you, although we may laugh at you first