Lancaster Easegill

[Chris J]

That's exactly what I do and it seems to work well.

On occasions a permit is wasted - mostly because of weather, in which case it would be wasted for anyone else too.

Yep, I've already sent off and got back a few permits for next year - it usually works ok for me too.

Yes the odd permit is wasted, but thats mostly the weather and even if the weather is dodgy there are in some places drier alternatives - IIRC the permit is to cross the fell so you could walk to any cave, say for instance its too wet for Pool Sink, go to County instead and thus the permit isn't wasted.. Simple..

The others you don't need to actually ask for a key - SWCC can issue them at weekends, they can be got from Whitewalls or other clubs, Danny you have to have a leader any way, Draenen is a combination lock etc..

I thought OFD1 was a leader thing too? And what of Aggy, I wasn't aware that a key could be obtained by asking a club at a weeeknd..?

unlike the CNCC permit system which really does stop me going underground.

How can it 'stop' you going underground? :doubt:

Yeah - exactly - OFD1 is a leader cave but you can quite often find someone at SWCC to take you down. Aggy - quite a few clubs hold their own keys (annual keys). Dunno about borrowing these but if you show up for a weekend at Whitewalls and there are members there I bet you can get a trip to Aggy in.

The point is that in S. Wales you don't need to plan 3 months - 1 year in advance to go caving.

If I read that I need a CNCC permit for a trip I want to do and it is Friday night or Saturday morning - that is it - no chance! At least in Wales or Mendip you can try a few huts, speak to a few members and usually get down any cave you want.

 

[damian]

I thought OFD1 was a leader thing too? And what of Aggy, I wasn't aware that a key could be obtained by asking a club at a weeeknd..?

OFD 1 is a leader trip. You certainly shouldn't be able to collect a key from a nearby hut for Aggy. Either your club has an annual permit, or you have to write for a key and permit.

Chris J - I agree that Aggy, Craig a Ffynnon and The Forest caves are the only ones needing keys to be posted - and Craig a Ffynnon is normally delivered to you at the carpark. However, you also need to write off for the Draenen code or OFD permits. Leaders are needed for OFD1 and Otter Hole, which again needs letters well in advance. To my mind, unless, as I am, you happen to be in a club with annual permits, keys and leaders for all these, it must be pretty tricky.

 

[Chris J]

However, you also need to write off for the Draenen code or OFD permits. Leaders are needed for OFD1 and Otter Hole, which again needs letters well in advance. To my mind, unless, as I am, you happen to be in a club with annual permits, keys and leaders for all these, it must be pretty tricky.

Draenen code - can be emailed/once you know it and are a regular down there - no problem!
OFD - The annual permit scheme is just a rubber stamp thing your club should do. In reality you just show up at SWCC and pick up keys.
OFD1 -  Try going to SWCC on Friday night and ask around or if you are really organised send an email to ask if there are any leaders about.

To reiterate - I'm a BEC member (OFD annual permit) and I have NEVER had problems getting down these caves at SHORT notice.

It is the length of notice required for CNCC permits which gets me - you simply can't just show up and go caving - you need to plan things 6 months in advance!

 

[damian]

To reiterate - I'm a BEC member (OFD annual permit) and I have NEVER had problems getting down these caves at SHORT notice.

My club also has an annual permit for OFD and Draenen, a key for Aggy, my Dad is an OFD1 and DYO leader and I'm an Otter Hole leader ... so I have no problems in S. Wales either. But that's not my point. My point is that those who aren't in this fortunate position also have to write letters for S. Wales in just the same way as for the Dales ... and, by the way, the 3-months in advance for Dales permits is definitely a red herring. I have had permits with only a few weeks' notice.

 

[graham]

So judging by the last two replies the answer seems to be:

Join a club. 

 

[Chris J]

I look at this situation very simply (and this is just my experience and my point of view).

Wales, Mendip etc.. easy access to caves, short notice required. Huts able to issue keys/permits etc..

Dales - Permits obtained by writing off - takes longer and cannot be done 'on spec', fewer available.

My experience is that in the South permits aren't a problem - they are just a rubber stamp to keep land owners happy.

Up North because of the way the system is administrated - permits are a big hassle.

 

 

[dunc]

Yes, its a pain having to write off in advance (Fountains Fell being by far the worst as you have to get permits requests in at start of year - at least others you can still get them through the year), but as I said previously I've already sorted some out - sent and returned in about 1 week..

What also has to be taken into consideration is that its only a few fells (although admittedly they contain good caving!) where permits are needed.. Any permits needed for pots on the Ingleborough estate can be obtained the day before I believe by a simple phone call.
And that still leaves plenty of options of good caves/pots with no or little in way of restrictions for making a decision on the day!

 

[Mr Fell]

Hit this link    http://cncc.org.uk/

 

[graham]

Hit this link    http://cncc.org.uk/

Pretty picture, but a trifle lacking in content a ce moment.

 

[danthecavingman]

Caves down south are easier to get into because they aren't on prime Grouse shooting land! It's a no brainer - when someone makes money out of the land they own they aren't going to let you on as easily.

Just my 2p

Dan.

 

[Glenn]

Hit this link    http://cncc.org.uk/

Pretty picture, but a trifle lacking in content a ce moment.

It does what it says on the tin - under construction :

 

[graham]

Wasn't complaining about CNCC, Glen, just wondered why folks were being directed to it at this time.

 

[Glenn]

Stu Wrote:

"Glenn, does an attendee have to be sponsored by club i.e. letter, or can they just show up?"

Just show up, although as your club already has a CNCC rep (SP8) it may be courteous to inform him that you will be attending.

So where were you all last night.....?