Peter Burgess said:If someone needlessly falls off a ladder/ladder breaks because of no lifeline then yes they are; to those with them and the people who risk having to come in to get the casualty.
Read Race Against Time... Mr Eyres has a few things to say about people who ladder with no lifeline.
For goodness sake, lighten up.
Where did I say I never used a line?
you made a heavily loaded statement
emgee said:What are you going to attach that line to. A lamp belt isn't considered to be PPE so in theory they all need at least a harness.
This is true, but as long as belts are made from industrially stitched 2 inch webbing they remain the most practical way to connect a lifeline for a short pitch/climb. I wouldn't stop using them for this purpose anymore than I would stop gripping the cave with my hands due to a lack of having CE marked fingers. In reality cavers are not going to routinely use harnesses for short isolated ladder pitches - they will just revert to bowlines round the waist. Of course there are limitations in the use of belts - shockloads must not happen, neither must prolonged suspension.
AndyF
In fact, a small party could probably get down and up before an SRT
party has managed to put their gear on....!
I use ladders and SRT, each has an advantage in certain situations.
Bat girl said:Just reading this topic has started me wondering how people on this forum feel about fixed ladders and there risks especailly the ones already missing rungs!
What do people feel about the dangers of fixed ladders?
MSD said:Are ladders classed as PPE and CE-marked? I know C-links got phased out as being too dangerous, but I bet there are still a lot of old ladders in circulation which have them. What would happen if someone was hurt using such a ladder (by the C-link failing)?
Mark
epik said:Just out of interest as far as im aware (was a couple of years ago) no caving gear has to be CE marked as caving is classed as progression and CE marks cover work at height and falls from height
Les W said:Caving kit offered for retail sale in the EU should be CE approved
(I think that a loophole in the law is that if you commision something to be produced it is then outside the CE requirements)
Les W said:It was my understanding that anything retailed within the EU was required to have a CE mark.
CE marks only show that the product conforms to the relevant saftey standards for that product type.