Loose resin anchors

[Simon Wilson]

Diccan 

Simon, does the online CNCC form come to you via the secretary?
Perhaps there are a whole bunch of reports backing up?

The form on the CNCC website goes to the Secretary but he's a busy man like me. He hasn't sent me any reports yet but if he gets any I expect I'll get them in good time.

At some point I'll be compiling a list of all reported loose anchors and I'll make it public.

I want everything about the anchor scheme to be public. I want all cavers to take ownership of, and responsibility for, the anchor scheme and for as many as possible to get involved. There is a lot of expertise out there amongst cavers and we could put it to good use.

 

[Pitlamp]

More good comments from Simon above.

If he's able to produce a list (especially one that can be updated) then cavers could easily check whether a loose bolt they've become aware of has already been notified or not.

Thanks for your efforts on our behalf Simon.

 

[Cavematt]

Until a couple of weeks ago the 'report defective anchor' button on the CNCC website sent a message to the CNCC Technical Group.

Unfortunately, it appears that the email address being used was not receiving the notifications.

We rejigged the section on Anchors on the website a few weeks ago to reflect the recent changes (that the IC anchor team are now approved by the CNCC and therefore there are two groups installing anchors with CNCC approval/endorsement). As part of these changes we temporarily changed the location of the 'Report Defective Anchor' button to be more prominant and relevant to either anchor type and to forward to me for testing purposes.

It seems to now be working:

http://www.cncc.org.uk/anchors/report-anchor.php

But of course, this change was only made a few weeks ago and so anything reported via this prior to that may have been missed.

Any notifications I receive will be personally acknowledged and forwarded to Simon and/or the CNCCTG with the higest of priority. However, I need to discuss with the relevant parties over the next few weeks whether this is the best approach or, whether, for example, the reports should go directly to Simon. Either way, both will result in the matter getting dealt with.

Cheers
Matt
Secretary, Council of Northern Caving Clubs

 

[ianball11]

Thank you Matt.

For info and a fair while ago, I reported a loose anchor in August 2014 and it was acknowledged by the TG hours later!  (Not yet been replaced though, needs persistent dry spells I think)

The form on the CNCC website goes to the Secretary but he's a busy man like me. He hasn't sent me any reports yet but if he gets any I expect I'll get them in good time.
At some point I'll be compiling a list of all reported loose anchors and I'll make it public.
I want everything about the anchor scheme to be public.

Further to Simon's plan of a public list, would it be easy top have the online submission form display on the website?  Then there could be a ticklist for say submitted, acknowledged, investigated, actioned?
Would be public and easy to see if the suspect anchor had been previously reported or not?

 

[Cavematt]

Thanks Ian. I think the issues arose due to new security measures certain email providers introduced earlier this year to block suspicious looking emails. Usually this results in a bounce back notification to the sender (so I am made aware), but when the email is sent from an automatic system as a result of a form being filled in online I'm not sure what happens.

I guess the lesson to us is to test these things regularly  :-[

Your idea sounds like a very good one to me! Simon, if you agree, get in touch by email with Gary and I and we can try to make this happen.

 

[ianball11]

Your idea sounds like a very good one to me!

not often that sentence is aimed at me!   

 

[Simon Wilson]

Your idea sounds like a very good one to me!

not often that sentence is aimed at me!   

Thanks Ian.

It sounds like a good idea to me too and I think we should get on with it.

It's your anchor scheme - take the initiative - get involved.

 

[TLH]

Not sure if they have already been noted, but yesterday a few of us went down Diccan Pot and found some of the Resin anchors to swivel slightly and one or two looked like the resin had come unbonded to the hole. Mainly toward the bottom picthes may I add.

Just an observation

TLH

 

[Simon Wilson]

Not sure if they have already been noted, but yesterday a few of us went down Diccan Pot and found some of the Resin anchors to swivel slightly and one or two looked like the resin had come unbonded to the hole. Mainly toward the bottom picthes may I add.

Just an observation

TLH

Not just an observation. It's a useful report. I knew there was one loose anchor in Diccan but now we know there are more. Thanks.

 

[langcliffe]

On a slightly tangential topic, I was informed by a caving colleague that the deviation P-anchor on the Gavel Pot entrance pitch has made a successful bid for freedom together with the section of rock that it was attached to. The two are probably now lying in the sump of Short Drop Cave.

 

[Simon Wilson]

On a slightly tangential topic, I was informed by a caving colleague that the deviation P-anchor on the Gavel Pot entrance pitch has made a successful bid for freedom together with the section of rock that it was attached to. The two are probably now lying in the sump of Short Drop Cave.

I did ask people to report all loose anchors even if they are only very slightly loose. I suppose an anchor which is some distance away from where it was installed might be better recorded as 'defective' rather than 'loose' or even 'very loose'.

Thanks for the report Langcliffe.

 

[SamT]

How about a new 'sticky' topic - one under each locality for reporting loose anchors.

Pegasus - Badlad?

 

[SamT]

Oops - just looked and we already have one!!!

what about a fresh, new, loose bolt only topic then...

 

[Badlad]

Could separate out the loose anchor posts from the bad air and dodgy boulders if it would help.  Sounds like you got yourself a job there SamT. 

 

[Simon Wilson]

Today I went for a look at the loose anchor reported at GG. I pulled it out and I had my standard installation kit but I forgot to take a 16mm drill bit to clean out the hole. I'll have to go back and install a replacement anchor.

I filmed it before I pulled it out.

https://youtu.be/Jku__aggPCc

 

[ianball11]

Not sure Id fancy yanking on a glued in metal spike stood on that ledge! Crumbs!

Good stuff 

 

[Simon Wilson]

Today I went for a look at the loose anchor reported at GG. I pulled it out and I had my standard installation kit but I forgot to take a 16mm drill bit to clean out the hole. I'll have to go back and install a replacement anchor.

I filmed it before I pulled it out.

https://youtu.be/Jku__aggPCc

Sorted.

                                             

 

[ianball11]

 

[Simon Wilson]

I've been for a look at Hardrawkin and there are indeed several loose anchors. Along with Gaping Gill I have gained information about loose anchors which is very useful indeed.

Please report any loose anchors - it is important.

 

[Simon Wilson]

After my requests to report loose anchors on here a few were reported on this thread. In response I have done inspections and found loose anchors.

I am again asking cavers to report loose anchors. This should be done by using the loose anchor reporting form on the CNCC website. http://cncc.org.uk/caving/report/anchor.php

During the time that I have been directly involved with anchors there has been one report of a loose anchor made to the CNCC. This was a report of a loose anchor in Bull Pot. That loose anchor was removed and replaced within a few weeks.

Simon suggested that we should remove the +/-1mm movement criterion.  He argues any movement is obvious.  That was not the experience of those who followed up reports of loose anchors in the past. 

It is easy to tell when an anchor is loose. There are many anchors that are very obviously loose that are not being reported. This video shows two obviously loose anchors that (as far as I know) have not been reported.

https://youtu.be/2PO7-yUJ_FQ