notdavidgilmour
Member
Ummmm, Have I mentioned anything Urbex related? :-\
TheBitterEnd said:mad-dan said:if there is a cave on land covered by crow, you can walk up to said cave in caving gear, but you cant go in without the permision of the land owner?
The CROW act is silent on the matter of caving. The act grants permission to access the land shown on the maps. The act lists a specific set of Exclusions (quoted earlier in this thread), caving is not in that list of exclusions. Perhaps of note is that rock climbing is also in this situation and the view there is that if it is not explicitly excluded then it is allowed.
droid said:Newbies are getting a bit exciteable
Maybe they could try to remember this is caving, not urbex
mikem said:http://www.british-caving.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26
Situation doesn't seem to have changed much, apart from access to water has been spurned by Government, who advise "Voluntary Agreements" with landowners.
http://www.riversaccess.org/
Mike
martinr said:Can someone who believes in extending CROW to caving please explain to me why there should be a right of access for one-and-all to something like this:
and secondly, could they estimate how long the formations would survive if there was unlimited access?
(I should add: the broken stall in the image was already broken before the passage was discovered; and I know the cave is not on CROW land )
stu said:I said it earlier; the conservation issue was cited as reason not to have CRoW enacted (mainly by the land lobby). Funny enough it didn't lead to hordes of people traipsing among the moors causing untold damage.
More than 250,000 walkers pound the paths of the Yorkshire Three Peaks ? Whernside, Ingleborough and Pen-y-ghent each year, creating a need for costly footpath maintenance.
stu said:TheBitterEnd said:mad-dan said:if there is a cave on land covered by crow, you can walk up to said cave in caving gear, but you cant go in without the permision of the land owner?
The CROW act is silent on the matter of caving. The act grants permission to access the land shown on the maps. The act lists a specific set of Exclusions (quoted earlier in this thread), caving is not in that list of exclusions. Perhaps of note is that rock climbing is also in this situation and the view there is that if it is not explicitly excluded then it is allowed.
My reading of everything the BMC sent out suggests climbing is included page 2.
graham said:stu said:I said it earlier; the conservation issue was cited as reason not to have CRoW enacted (mainly by the land lobby). Funny enough it didn't lead to hordes of people traipsing among the moors causing untold damage.
More than 250,000 walkers pound the paths of the Yorkshire Three Peaks ? Whernside, Ingleborough and Pen-y-ghent each year, creating a need for costly footpath maintenance.
Source.
stu said:graham said:stu said:I said it earlier; the conservation issue was cited as reason not to have CRoW enacted (mainly by the land lobby). Funny enough it didn't lead to hordes of people traipsing among the moors causing untold damage.
More than 250,000 walkers pound the paths of the Yorkshire Three Peaks ? Whernside, Ingleborough and Pen-y-ghent each year, creating a need for costly footpath maintenance.
Source.
Which has what to do with CRoW? Wainwright has more to answer for than CRoW. The article actually reads like a successful partnership between all parties concerned rather than a doom and gloom apocalypse.
TheBitterEnd said:Perhaps you could point me to the Paragraph in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, or in regulations/orders made under the act, where Rock Climbing is explicitly mentioned? AFAIAA it is isn't, it is just that the the act and regulations don't exclude it, so it is included, like I said...
graham said:stu said:graham said:stu said:I said it earlier; the conservation issue was cited as reason not to have CRoW enacted (mainly by the land lobby). Funny enough it didn't lead to hordes of people traipsing among the moors causing untold damage.
More than 250,000 walkers pound the paths of the Yorkshire Three Peaks ? Whernside, Ingleborough and Pen-y-ghent each year, creating a need for costly footpath maintenance.
Source.
Which has what to do with CRoW? Wainwright has more to answer for than CRoW. The article actually reads like a successful partnership between all parties concerned rather than a doom and gloom apocalypse.
Merely pointing out that hordes of people do indeed traipse and do indeed cause damage that requires maintenance.
stu said:Why does it make it any more or less likely that open access will lead to desecration of caves?
stu said:... Some (not very imaginative) people walk the same route (for charity?) causing footpath erosion. ......
Meanwhile I'll carry on running and hiking (and let's not forget caving) on the other areas of CRoW where I never seem to see anyone else. Even though it's open access...
stu said:Yes Graham they do... Some (not very imaginative) people walk the same route (for charity?) causing footpath erosion. And because of that one piece of evidence, you win.
Meanwhile I'll carry on running and hiking (and let's not forget caving) on the other areas of CRoW where I never seem to see anyone else. Even though it's open access...