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    The publication date for issue 289 is the 10th of December, meaning subscribers should receive their copies during the week leading up to that date. It is also available from caving suppliers such as Inglesport and Starless River, or from our new website

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Lumb Hole

Brains

Well-known member
Seems like decades ago, probably is, went down here in drought. After the squeeze there were three distinct ramps to a triangular chamber about 100' below normal sump level to a largish standing height chamber... In one corner was a walking size phreatic tube to a sump that Moose dived to a constriction. Has anyone been back since? On the way a large block needed to be squeezed past that had well developed calcite crystals....
Given the current heat does that equate to a drought? Access to lower levels?
Upper levels were too tight to push but things and techniques change...
 

StoneyPeakyCaver

New member
I was looking at the water levels data for The Brook in Middleton Dale on Friday.( Using this data as a bit of a generalisation of the wider area) it was at its lowest on 29June then crept up a bit and were still pretty low but I could try see what the sensor is reading later. It will undoubtedly be lower since then but probably only a bit. But I guess to find out actual ground water you should go take a look in the cave 🧐 unless there’s a borehole in the area anyone knows about we can measure
 

Rob

Well-known member
Brains, good suggestion for a dry weather poke sometime, i'd love to "complete" my survey of the place. May go for a quick gander one evening this week.

Unlike much of the Dales, the Peak's water tables are generally very slow moving, and i would guess especially so for Lumb Hole. The best online guide i have found for Derbyshire water levels is the river gauge at Ashford in the Water.
Most of this water is from autogenic sources (rain landing on limestone itself, rather than via quicker swallets off adjacent geology) and it appears to have a good correlation.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Has anyone checked if the Resurgence entrance to Carlswark is open? We went through that several times over a couple of weeks in 2010, I think it was. I know they're not related, but it may be an indicator of how standing water levels are holding up (or not) in the area.
 

StoneyPeakyCaver

New member
I was looking at the water levels data for The Brook in Middleton Dale on Friday.( Using this data as a bit of a generalisation of the wider area) it was at its lowest on 29June then crept up a bit and were still pretty low but I could try see what the sensor is reading later. It will undoubtedly be lower since then but probably only a bit. But I guess to find out actual ground water you should go take a look in the cave 🧐 unless there’s a borehole in the area anyone knows about we can measure
Reading 0.2m at lovers leap same as last week
Has anyone checked if the Resurgence entrance to Carlswark is open? We went through that several times over a couple of weeks in 2010, I think it was. I know they're not related, but it may be an indicator of how standing water levels are holding up (or not) in the area.
Id be happy to join on a cheeky trip to check it out if any wants too back in stoney tomorrow
 

JonP

Active member
Has anyone checked if the Resurgence entrance to Carlswark is open? We went through that several times over a couple of weeks in 2010, I think it was. I know they're not related, but it may be an indicator of how standing water levels are holding up (or not) in the area.
Although you may need to go a bit further in to see if you can get all the way through and back via stalagtite passage like we did back in 2010.

We do know
Reading 0.2m at lovers leap same as last week

Id be happy to join on a cheeky trip to check it out if any wants too back in stoney tomorrow
There might be an Eldon trip tomorrow (Thursday) in carlswark to check the bedpan. Could have a jolly out via the resurgence?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
If you do, can you check the direction of the shotholes in the middle 'sough' section? It's something that passed me by at the time, but now I'm intrigued

A few of us were in Speedwell today, doing a few jobs, and we went into the Pit Props Series - almost totally devoid of water. The main stream was flowing down into the small sump to the left (east) of the upright timbers. The branch 'canal' was mostly dry walking with huge humps of dry silt, and the only water was emanating from the mud just before entering the loading chamber - no doubt from the inlet sump further in, and probably part of the original stream route. I got some photos ;)

I didn't go any further but Charley and Wayne did and both Whirlpool and Main Rising were not flowing.
 

Rob

Well-known member
Just back from a quick gander down Lumb. I'd never been beyond the "normal" sump level (about 35m in) so i was in for a treat! = Anything to get out of today's heat....

So the sump is currently just past the turn off to the upper level, ~17m down a steadily descending passage:
2022-07-19 19.18.11.jpg
I did occasionally hear some gurgling so i guess it is actively going down. I've roughly stitched the survey data together and this suggests the sump is about at the river level at the entrance. Note that the river was dry at the entrance; the top spring was ~40m downstream from Lumb.
2022-07-19 18.03.02.jpg
So Brains if you say the sump sometimes drops to 100' below river level that's a hell of a way still to go!

I did explore the upper level all the way to the end, although i have to admit not really enjoying very much of it. This is the dig face at the end.
2022-07-19 18.36.15.jpg
I'll share the updated survey here once i've drawn in all up.
 

shotlighter

Active member
It drops way beyond where your photo is. IIRC it has about 3 slight "steps" in the downward passage, where it levels out a bit before carrying on a the same angle. At the bottom of the slope, the passage turns left & enters a tube & that's as far as I went.
I missed the trip when Moose dived the sump.
I'd love to come & have a look for old time sake but I know I wouldn't get through the squeeze now, where we broke through into the top of the downward ramp.
 
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Brains

Well-known member
Just back from a quick gander down Lumb. I'd never been beyond the "normal" sump level (about 35m in) so i was in for a treat! = Anything to get out of today's heat....

So the sump is currently just past the turn off to the upper level, ~17m down a steadily descending passage:
I did occasionally hear some gurgling so i guess it is actively going down. I've roughly stitched the survey data together and this suggests the sump is about at the river level at the entrance. Note that the river was dry at the entrance; the top spring was ~40m downstream from Lumb.
So Brains if you say the sump sometimes drops to 100' below river level that's a hell of a way still to go!

I did explore the upper level all the way to the end, although i have to admit not really enjoying very much of it. This is the dig face at the end.
I'll share the updated survey here once i've drawn in all up.
We (Ross Evans and me) surveyed down from the normal sump with a tape, compass and clino IIRC. The depth could well be off! As mentioned three distinct ramps or steps to a triangular chamber with the phreatic walking size tube to the left. It was literally a few feet to the water that Moose dived. He used a small hand held cylinder and was only a few minutes, reporting a bedrock constriction.
Others have surveyed the dry passages, with at least one connection to the lower series on a very muddy fault.
The dry dig was left as you show in a low bedding or tube with a little silt covering the bedrock... Ongoing passage is there if you can get in!
 
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Rob

Well-known member
Yes the upper level dig didn't actually look too bad, i bet an hour's work would get you into the next bit. However if it's like the last 50m, maybe not too appealing. Especially with the badger poos everywhere! :poop:

Any idea where the survey or data went? The only plan survey i've seen is by CCPC (Tony Reynolds and Liam Kelly) from 1994, just before the breakthrough....
 

Brains

Well-known member
Alas I have no idea, Ross may still have it but he gave up caving and moved to another town. Sadly not been in touch for years.

Should emphasize I was a late comer to the dig, only getting involved with it around the time of the breakthrough, so while involved a little I was a very minor player.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
I just had a look through the memory stick of John Beck's archive, and the only Lumb Hole survey is below - presumably the one Rob means? It's not a big file, so it's at full-size for grabbing if anyone needs it. Also a page from the CCPC Newsletter about the dig, which was alongside the survey.

lumb hole survey.jpg

CCPC 1996.jpg
 

shotlighter

Active member
It's very unlikely that Ross still has the survey data. Unfortunately his caving docs, including hundreds of medium format cave photos & negatives were lost, due to a tea chest cock-up when he moved house around 2000.
I think the CCPC survey you've seen is the one I have. Liam Keely told me many years back, that he didn't know where his original survey data had gone.
So really all needs doing again, if your up for it Rob!?
I really ought to write up the history of the dig & how/when & by whom it was done.

Edit, cross post yes thats the survey. I have one that the newsletter was copied from, as sent to me by Liam once he'd crunched the data.
 
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shotlighter

Active member
It's very unlikely that Ross still has the survey data. Unfortunately his caving docs, including hundreds of medium format cave photos & negatives were lost, due to a tea chest cock-up when he moved house around 2000.
I think the CCPC survey you've seen is the one I have. Liam Keely told me many years back, that he didn't know where his original survey data had gone.
So really all needs doing again, if your up for it Rob!?
I really ought to write up the history of the dig & how/when & by whom it was done.

Edit, cross post yes thats the survey. I have one that the newsletter was copied from, as sent to me by Liam once he'd crunched the data.
Should have said, I also have a line survey (also by Liam Keely) which covers more than the one in the newsletter. Unfortunately, it's just that, a line & a remarkably straight one, compared to how the cave seems to twist & turn.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Several years ago, Ralph Johnson discussed this sump with me - we were lined up to go for a dive, then it rained. Then, sadly, we lost Ralph.

I'm sure he mentioned having a full survey of the cave. If anyone knows what happened to Ralph's collection of caving material, there might be something useful with that?
 

shotlighter

Active member
Several years ago, Ralph Johnson discussed this sump with me - we were lined up to go for a dive, then it rained. Then, sadly, we lost Ralph.

I'm sure he mentioned having a full survey of the cave. If anyone knows what happened to Ralph's collection of caving material, there might be something useful with that?
I think Ralph would almost certainly be referring to the one that I have.
I would be extremely surprised if any others were done. apart from the Ross/Brian one mentioned above.
As far as I can recall Ralph only visited the cave once. It was a few days after the breakthrough - he was not impressed.
His only comment was "this is not my idea of bloody caving"! - And with that he was gone!!
 
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