• Hello From Descent

    The publication date for issue 289 is the 10th of December, meaning subscribers should receive their copies during the week leading up to that date. It is also available from caving suppliers such as Inglesport and Starless River, or from our new website

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Lumb Hole

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks Shotlighter. Strange that, as he went out of his way to contact me to persuade me to drive down from the Dales and dive there. He offerd to organise sherpas. Maybe he wan't including himself in that offer!
 

shotlighter

Active member
Thanks Shotlighter. Strange that, as he went out of his way to contact me to persuade me to drive down from the Dales and dive there. He offerd to organise sherpas. Maybe he wan't including himself in that offer!
Possibly not!
He was renowned for his request of "just hold me this a min". This was immediately before he disappeared into the distance, leaving some unfortunate (usually new-comer) to carry his tackle bag out!
He didn't do sherpaing:)
 

Brains

Well-known member
Think Ralph was so disparaging as a larger member of the team was in the squeeze and struggling while the rest of us were inside listening to the struggles. The idea of being trapped by a human cork was not to his liking!

On the survey the passage at 4 emerges in a bedding with a visual connection to 5, with the dotted passage crossing 5 being the breakthrough squeeze. The lower line beyond here represents normal sump level. The dry series I seem to recall is at the far end of the bedding on the uphill side, into a series of low tubes and bedding passages to the dig face. The 18 m below the sump level and the 9m of diving probably equates to the 100 foot below normal figure...
Darren the author of the article may know more but I would imagine Shotlighter is as conversant with the details as anyone.
In addition to all the notes and photos I believe Ross had a full set of Descent in that tea chest... It's probably stored in the back of the 80" centre steer land rover prototype...?
 

shotlighter

Active member
In addition to all the notes and photos I believe Ross had a full set of Descent in that tea chest... It's probably stored in the back of the 80" centre steer land rover prototype...?
It went to the tip. He had two tea chests, one being filled with stuff for the tip, the other full of stuff that was irreplaceable. At some point a couple of his photos got put on top of the rubbish chest & that's the one that got put on the van.
He only discovered when he started unpacking at the other end. I think the couple of photos on top were all that survived. The other chest had already gone to the tip.
 

Rob

Well-known member
Should have said, I also have a line survey (also by Liam Keely) which covers more than the one in the newsletter. Unfortunately, it's just that, a line & a remarkably straight one, compared to how the cave seems to twist & turn.
I'd be keen to see the line survey, if you can share?

So really all needs doing again, if your up for it Rob!?
Well I surveyed everything I got to last night, so that's a good start. 👍
 

shotlighter

Active member
I root the survey out tomorrow for you to see. I'd love to come & have a look but I was the struggling caver that Ralph thought would "cork the bottle" alluded to in Brains post above!
I went through the squeeze many times after that but that was nearly 30yrs ago!
It was always our intention to tidy that bit up & get rid of that rock in the roof, before we carried on digging.
Unfortunately a new job in late 94, meant I lost access to the store named in my A&K. so thinks came to a bit of a long pause.....
 

shotlighter

Active member
I found my copy of Liam's line survey, which seems to go the the current end. (the letter & main survey in the envelope with it are dated 9/94)
Sorry about the quality, but the paper that this is on seems to have deteriorated rather badly.
Note sure who's the hand written annotations are, but "looning the tube" was IIRC what Brains referred to the phreatic bit at the end as.
 

Attachments

  • Lumb line Surv 9 94.pdf
    700.4 KB · Views: 49
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Rob

Well-known member
Shotlighter, thanks for sending that. Interesting that the output survey is facing 300 deg, at a view angle of 20 deg!?!

I've plotted my survey from Tuesday onto the top of your line survey, with the same viewing angle. Looks to line up well. (y)

1658410372051.png


Certainly suggests we need A LOT more dry weather...
 

Brains

Well-known member
That looks like the line data Ross and I collected...
The print out looks like the style Ross was using at the time, he was doing a CAD course and playing with 3d rendering / rotating images. Given it is inclined I guess he used these settings to illustrate the ramps more clearly. The triangle will be a loop round the chamber at the end, with "Looning the Tube" being the walking size phrea to the then sump level. I had forgotten that name! Guess it was around the same time the routes were first being done in Dinorwic etc. It certainly felt a long way below the river bed!

Ross drafted the first images for the Peak Rigging Guide that Wellyjen is now maintaining on his computer, the printouts looking very similar I redrew them and drafted a description for Knotlow to present to the club for discussion. Ralph and others helped, then took over collecting and preparing the data for other localities. Over the years I took more of a backseat and now there is very little if anything of mine left in the guide, having been edited and renewed. The early topos display my lack of skill with a pen :D
 

shotlighter

Active member
I think you're right, it would certainly explain the different paper & presentation style to the docs I have form Liam. It would also explain the annotations. What you mentioned about the plot showing the steps in the ramp, rings a bell with me too. Looks like something else escaped the tea chest of doom!
Rob, great to see your survey lining up with the line survey. If you are serious about taking the project forward, perhaps we should meet up there when you visit sometime?
 

Rob

Well-known member
Shotlighter, I'm not serious about taking any project forward whilst Cussey is still rewarding us Eldonites. (y):beer:

My interest in Lumb is sporadic, but probably mainly because it's the closest proper cave to my house. The odd trip in to check sump levels and knock a survey together i'm happy enough with for now. Digging/diving in there is another game altogether!

Tonight I've put together this plan survey. The updated elevation can wait until any real depth is available. Comments welcome.
 

Attachments

  • LumbMaster.pdf
    52.6 KB · Views: 65

shotlighter

Active member
That's brilliant Rob. The passage you've marked "dig" has long been my best bet for a "fly over" bypassing the (Sept 94) sump. It would of been our next point of attack, once the squeeze had been written off. The passage immediately south of the dig, oxbows back into the (currently sumped) ramp, about 1/3 of the way down. The SE passage of the upper series is probably on the same bedding as the small bedding chamber just by the 19/4/18 sump marked on your survey. This small bedding chamber has 2 low continuations tending NE & SW. The NE one was too low but the SE one was entered by my son when he was 10 & quite small. He went for about 10ft before I made him come back - by pulling on the rope I'd tied to his foot! He was a veteran of Lumb Hole & used to come along to press the button, at the end of each visit.
 

Rob

Well-known member
... The SE passage of the upper series is probably on the same bedding as the small bedding chamber just by the 19/4/18 sump marked on your survey....
Do you mean SW passage of the upper series? If so, it was interesting to note that on tuesday all the (quite fresh) badger poo and footprints were only in the upper series. I assumed therefore that this SW passage (which i didn't enter) may well lead eventually to another entrance.

...This small bedding chamber has 2 low continuations tending NE & SW. The NE one was too low but the SE one was entered by my son when he was 10 & quite small. He went for about 10ft before I made him come back - by pulling on the rope I'd tied to his foot! He was a veteran of Lumb Hole & used to come along to press the button, at the end of each visit.
Sounds like a great adventure for him! Thanks, i didn't go down into the little bedding chamber. I'll add suggestive passage detail onto the survey...
 

AR

Well-known member
It's been raining steadily all morning here in the Peak so water levels will be back on the way up...
 

Rob

Well-known member
Indeed much needed rain falling all day so far. However I bet the levels are not rising in Lumb, not yet anyway. Most of the water so far will be caught by the parched soil, and either way it'll take a lot of time (certainly days, maybe weeks?) for any of it to reach the water table in Lumb.

Actually, a depth logger in the sump with a 12 month battery could be a very interesting project...
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Are we OK to add this new survey to the cave registry when you're happy with it? There's not much up there at the moment :)
 
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Brains

Well-known member
Might be worth putting in a well belayed dive line? We are all assuming the clean tube with the constricted sump is the way the main flow enters, but in the roof of the tube (above head height) there was a bedding that Ross told me was open but too small to enter when he climbed up to it... This might be the ( or a ) water source? The opposite corner of the triangular chamber was quite muddy but may also have had an inlet?
 

shotlighter

Active member
Do you mean SW passage of the upper series? If so, it was interesting to note that on tuesday all the (quite fresh) badger poo and footprints were only in the upper series. I assumed therefore that this SW passage (which i didn't enter) may well lead eventually to another entrance.
Yes, that's the one & it would be interesting to see if there was badger poo in the little bedding chamber. It's not hard to imagine the upper level SE passage passing through the little bedding chamber & continuing SE (the bit my son entered) out to grass, via a badger sett.
There was a big sett just over the wall from the lye-bye, where we used to park. Is that one still there? Opposite side of the valley of course but perhaps they flitted.
 
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shotlighter

Active member
Dont know if this makes it clearer or not - I'm no artist! It's a section through the cave when I've drawn a line through your survey. I've sketched a sort of 3D over it showing how I remember it. No attempt at making it to scale.
IMG_20220723_0001 (2).jpg
IMG_20220723_0001 (2).jpg
 
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