-
Mendip Rocks, Earth Science Lecture Day
Mendip Rocks are holding a number of presentations on Saturday 17th October as part of the Earth Science Week. Talks will include:-
Anjana Khatwa, award winning presenter and writer: "The Whispers of Rock: Stories from the Earth". Vince Simmonds, archeologist and cave explorer: "Echoes of the Ice Age: A Pleistocene Record from Mendip Cave Deposits" Of particular interest will be the recent find, the Woolly Rhino Skull that is now in Wells Museum. Owen Dukes - Geologist (Tarmac) "Mendip Mineral Resources"
Memorials - research enquiry.
- Thread starter yrammy
- Start date
andybrooks
Active member
There is a memorial bench for Sheck Exley at Manatee Springs, and steps in his memory at Peacock Springs in Florida.
Also the underground memorial plaque for Keith Potter in Pozo del Xitu.
Also the underground memorial plaque for Keith Potter in Pozo del Xitu.
yrammy
Active member
Liv Preston who is doing the research thanks everyone for their contributions. She has a few particular areas of interest now.
Caves named (renamed?) as memorials to cavers - there are a few mentions of this on the forum i.e. :
"Boxhead Pot was named in memory of Alan 'boxhead' Box (who also died in Matienzo). No plaque necessary."
I'm curious to what extent this happens, i'm very ignorant as to how caves are named in the first place so it would be interesting to know whether these are 'official' names or something shared between the community.
The controversy surrounding the placing of memorial plaques:
There are quite a few references to this by cavers on the forum, I wonder if there are any articles/papers discussing this issue. I'm also quite intrigued by the post about the lecture in memorial to Paul Esser. I'm going to email the university to see if they have an transcript of the lecture, but I was wondering if there was any record of similar events in your archive? This could be any kind of less traditional memorial, people also mentioned walks and other activities.
Remains in situ:
I'm going to attempt to contact some German archives for information about the grave of Alexander M?rk von M?rkenstein who's ashes were placed in the system he died in. I've already read about a few examples of cavers being buried in situ and i'd be interested to read any other articles of documents around this. For example in my research so far about the Mossdale cavers I understand there bodies were later relocated by their friends to the Mud Caverns in the system, i'm quite curious about the practicalities of such an action and the communities thoughts about such decisions.
More unusual or 'improvised' form of plaque/inscription:
As part of the paper will be a discussion about the sculptural qualities of the memorials i'm very interested in the memorials that exist in less traditional formats. For example the inscription in Ogof Wyntog, i'm also extremely interested in the misspelt mud inscription for Neil Moss.
I am following these up. I know there is a lot of information on Mossdale and the Peak Cavern Neil Moss incident. Any other contributions would be welcome.
Thanks
Mary
Caves named (renamed?) as memorials to cavers - there are a few mentions of this on the forum i.e. :
"Boxhead Pot was named in memory of Alan 'boxhead' Box (who also died in Matienzo). No plaque necessary."
I'm curious to what extent this happens, i'm very ignorant as to how caves are named in the first place so it would be interesting to know whether these are 'official' names or something shared between the community.
The controversy surrounding the placing of memorial plaques:
There are quite a few references to this by cavers on the forum, I wonder if there are any articles/papers discussing this issue. I'm also quite intrigued by the post about the lecture in memorial to Paul Esser. I'm going to email the university to see if they have an transcript of the lecture, but I was wondering if there was any record of similar events in your archive? This could be any kind of less traditional memorial, people also mentioned walks and other activities.
Remains in situ:
I'm going to attempt to contact some German archives for information about the grave of Alexander M?rk von M?rkenstein who's ashes were placed in the system he died in. I've already read about a few examples of cavers being buried in situ and i'd be interested to read any other articles of documents around this. For example in my research so far about the Mossdale cavers I understand there bodies were later relocated by their friends to the Mud Caverns in the system, i'm quite curious about the practicalities of such an action and the communities thoughts about such decisions.
More unusual or 'improvised' form of plaque/inscription:
As part of the paper will be a discussion about the sculptural qualities of the memorials i'm very interested in the memorials that exist in less traditional formats. For example the inscription in Ogof Wyntog, i'm also extremely interested in the misspelt mud inscription for Neil Moss.
I am following these up. I know there is a lot of information on Mossdale and the Peak Cavern Neil Moss incident. Any other contributions would be welcome.
Thanks
Mary
Leclused
Well-known member
At the entrance of Gouffre Legarde (Doubs France) there is small memorial. I do not have a photo of my own but did found it on the following webpage.
http://www.hoehlenag.de/cavegallery_71.html
The accident is mentioned on the rescue page although the dates do not correspond.
http://www.speleo-doubs.com/secours/20ansSecours.php
"01/02/1998 - gouffre de la L?garde - Hautepierre le Chatelet
A la suite d'une mauvaise manipulation, une sp?l?o belge chute de 30m et se blesse gri?vement. Elle d?c?dera peu avant son ?vacuation par le SSF 25. "
http://www.hoehlenag.de/cavegallery_71.html
The accident is mentioned on the rescue page although the dates do not correspond.
http://www.speleo-doubs.com/secours/20ansSecours.php
"01/02/1998 - gouffre de la L?garde - Hautepierre le Chatelet
A la suite d'une mauvaise manipulation, une sp?l?o belge chute de 30m et se blesse gri?vement. Elle d?c?dera peu avant son ?vacuation par le SSF 25. "
David Rose
Well-known member
There is a memorial to Keith Potter at the top of the first pitch (in other words at the bottom of the awkward climb into the entrance doline) in Pozu del Xitu.
langcliffe
Well-known member
yrammy said:
I don't think that naming caves after people is very common these days, and I can't think of any example where a cave has been renamed. What is more common is naming passages or features after deceased cavers. Well known northern examples are Puits Ian Plant in Brown Hill Pot, named after Ian Plant; Glusford Chamber in Gavel Pot, named after Duncan Glasfurd; Penny Arcade in Gaping Gill, named after Chris Penny; Glover's Chamber also in Gaping Gill, named after Dick Glover; and Boireau Falls Chamber in Langcliffe Pot named after Geoffrey Boireau. Such names are given during the original exploration, and don't replace other names.
As with any name given to a feature or part of a cave, whether it enters common parlance depends on how useful it is.
Duncan
Member
To add yet another example to this dolorous topic, a memorial stone for M?lissa Lagr?de was placed at the entrance of the cave in which she died, in Banqiao, Hubei, China, in 2009 (Source: http://www.grottes-et-karsts-de-chine.org/npds/gkc_rcexd.php?exp_id=148&exp_nom=Au+pays+de+l%E2%80%99homme+sauvage)
Liv Preston
New member
Hey guys I thought I should introduce myself finally, I would firstly like to thank you for your contributions so far i?m quite overwhelmed by the amount of information in such a short time! And of course in particular to Mary who has been fantastic in aiding me so far!
Apologies for the long post but I thought it best to give you guys some information about the project.
I am Liv Preston an artist currently based at the Royal Academy of Arts in the second year. I was born in Keighley, West Yorkshire. I produce a variety of contemporary sculptural works and I have a particular interest in memorials and the traditions surrounding them.
For example i?m currently working on a paper and body of work surrounding various memorial sites notably Heysham Head, a 10th century burial site. I?ve attached a link where you can see some images of the site and process below, in short i?ve produced a direct 3D modelled replica built from photographs that will then be 3D printed at 1:1 scale, approximately 6x4m (very big haha!) and installed as a relief.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dsshW9R7wX-nJdQkBSpg1HLD7IQSNLFX?usp=sharing
As for my interest in caving I came across a paper during my research about the burial of cavers in situ and since i?ve become increasingly interested in the memorial practices surrounding this. Whether this be sculptural (plaques etc) or more esoteric. At the moment the aim is to gather as much information as possible, so anything at all is helpful but the post Mary previously provided contained some themes I noticed had been reoccurring in peoples contributions. Even if it is just a description of a memorial you've come across i'd love to hear about it.
I would also like to let you know that nothing will be used without your permission and you will be appropriately referenced if any of the information is included in the paper, I will contact you but you if you have any questions at all please feel free to let me know. My email is:
liv.preston@raschools.org.uk
Due to the nature of the research I obviously want to respect people's memories and adhere to what is appropriate in the community.
Also if any of you are ever in London please feel free to come visit! The RA is very central (i can also get you into any of the shows there for free!)
Thank you all again, I'm very excited about including this research in the paper and on it's eventual completion it will be publicly available for free.
Best,
Liv
Apologies for the long post but I thought it best to give you guys some information about the project.
I am Liv Preston an artist currently based at the Royal Academy of Arts in the second year. I was born in Keighley, West Yorkshire. I produce a variety of contemporary sculptural works and I have a particular interest in memorials and the traditions surrounding them.
For example i?m currently working on a paper and body of work surrounding various memorial sites notably Heysham Head, a 10th century burial site. I?ve attached a link where you can see some images of the site and process below, in short i?ve produced a direct 3D modelled replica built from photographs that will then be 3D printed at 1:1 scale, approximately 6x4m (very big haha!) and installed as a relief.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dsshW9R7wX-nJdQkBSpg1HLD7IQSNLFX?usp=sharing
As for my interest in caving I came across a paper during my research about the burial of cavers in situ and since i?ve become increasingly interested in the memorial practices surrounding this. Whether this be sculptural (plaques etc) or more esoteric. At the moment the aim is to gather as much information as possible, so anything at all is helpful but the post Mary previously provided contained some themes I noticed had been reoccurring in peoples contributions. Even if it is just a description of a memorial you've come across i'd love to hear about it.
I would also like to let you know that nothing will be used without your permission and you will be appropriately referenced if any of the information is included in the paper, I will contact you but you if you have any questions at all please feel free to let me know. My email is:
liv.preston@raschools.org.uk
Due to the nature of the research I obviously want to respect people's memories and adhere to what is appropriate in the community.
Also if any of you are ever in London please feel free to come visit! The RA is very central (i can also get you into any of the shows there for free!)
Thank you all again, I'm very excited about including this research in the paper and on it's eventual completion it will be publicly available for free.
Best,
Liv
You ask about the Boxhead Pot story - here it is.
Alan Box was a club mate and close friend to many of us. He was a fun, affable character with a strong passion for caving (although we wouldn't have used the word passion at the time). We did a ton of caving in the Dales together and several trips abroad - Mexico and Austria spring to mind. The one thing about Alan was that he was always skint. Coming from the north east work was hard to come by and poorly paid. Never the less he always managed to come caving often on a shoe string - literally. He made very good use of bailer twine which seemed to hold much of his kit together. His nick name was Boxhead and I can see his smiling face now - 25 years since his last fatal caving trip.
In a way his death was ironic. We'd recently introduced him to rope access and he was set to make some decent money for the first time in his life. The year before I'd been to Matienzo with Mark Wright and we attempted to scale the Astra Dome, a 100m+ high massive circular aven in Cueva Hoyuca, Four valleys System. We got close to the top but were thwarted by thick bands of poor rock with the top in sight.
The following year, 1994, I couldn't make the Matienzo trip and Mark recruited Boxhead for the job. It was technical rigging, using lightweight maypoling to get over the poor rock and eventually they succeeded in reaching the top. Tired and with poor lights they decided to descend and leave the exploration for another day. In the conditions Boxhead made the fatal error of getting on a short tail of rope and abseiled off the end falling 100m to the floor below. Boxhead was dead but spare a thought for Mark who had to exit the cave alone and raise the alarm. I have no hesitation writing this piece because I know Mark thinks about this day, everyday anyway.
We were all greatly saddened by the loss of our good friend. We wrote the usual obituaries in the caving magazines of the time. There were so many tales to recount of fun and daring do. Unfortunately Boxhead was not a big name caver and magazines edited the pieces down to just a short 'vale'.
Boxhead died on 17th August 1994 and a few months later a big wake was planned at the Punch Bowl inn at Low Row. Shortly before this event a new entrance had opened up on Leck Fell where glacial debris covering a shaft had collapsed. Mick Nunwick had previously climbed these avens from below but had been unable to connect them to the surface. On the day of the wake the two of us made the first descent of the new shaft. It wasn't stable like it is now and there was still heaps of debris perched on the edge. We measured the depth of the new shaft at 101m. As we walked back across the fell to head up to Low Row, Mick turned to me and said, "well, I suppose that's Boxhead Pot then" and it was.
Most cavers today will not know Alan Box but many will know of Boxhead Pot. There's no plaque to Alan, little in his obituary, few hits on google search, but the cave named after him will endure. Boxhead Pot is a lasting and low key tribute to our friend... and now a few more people will have heard of him. Cheers Al
Alan Box was a club mate and close friend to many of us. He was a fun, affable character with a strong passion for caving (although we wouldn't have used the word passion at the time). We did a ton of caving in the Dales together and several trips abroad - Mexico and Austria spring to mind. The one thing about Alan was that he was always skint. Coming from the north east work was hard to come by and poorly paid. Never the less he always managed to come caving often on a shoe string - literally. He made very good use of bailer twine which seemed to hold much of his kit together. His nick name was Boxhead and I can see his smiling face now - 25 years since his last fatal caving trip.
In a way his death was ironic. We'd recently introduced him to rope access and he was set to make some decent money for the first time in his life. The year before I'd been to Matienzo with Mark Wright and we attempted to scale the Astra Dome, a 100m+ high massive circular aven in Cueva Hoyuca, Four valleys System. We got close to the top but were thwarted by thick bands of poor rock with the top in sight.
The following year, 1994, I couldn't make the Matienzo trip and Mark recruited Boxhead for the job. It was technical rigging, using lightweight maypoling to get over the poor rock and eventually they succeeded in reaching the top. Tired and with poor lights they decided to descend and leave the exploration for another day. In the conditions Boxhead made the fatal error of getting on a short tail of rope and abseiled off the end falling 100m to the floor below. Boxhead was dead but spare a thought for Mark who had to exit the cave alone and raise the alarm. I have no hesitation writing this piece because I know Mark thinks about this day, everyday anyway.
We were all greatly saddened by the loss of our good friend. We wrote the usual obituaries in the caving magazines of the time. There were so many tales to recount of fun and daring do. Unfortunately Boxhead was not a big name caver and magazines edited the pieces down to just a short 'vale'.
Boxhead died on 17th August 1994 and a few months later a big wake was planned at the Punch Bowl inn at Low Row. Shortly before this event a new entrance had opened up on Leck Fell where glacial debris covering a shaft had collapsed. Mick Nunwick had previously climbed these avens from below but had been unable to connect them to the surface. On the day of the wake the two of us made the first descent of the new shaft. It wasn't stable like it is now and there was still heaps of debris perched on the edge. We measured the depth of the new shaft at 101m. As we walked back across the fell to head up to Low Row, Mick turned to me and said, "well, I suppose that's Boxhead Pot then" and it was.
Most cavers today will not know Alan Box but many will know of Boxhead Pot. There's no plaque to Alan, little in his obituary, few hits on google search, but the cave named after him will endure. Boxhead Pot is a lasting and low key tribute to our friend... and now a few more people will have heard of him. Cheers Al
Maggin's Rift in Giants Hole was named after Frank Maggin, who was the 2nd. person through the sump, following immediately after Ken Pearce when he made the breakthrough in May 1954. (This dig lasted 3 years and they built the two backwash Dams in the passage beyond the old Pillar Crawl in order to bale the semi-static sump which blocked the way on.) Frank had been digging with Ken since the age of 14, when he left school in Manchester in 1951, and was a keen caver.
As well as caving in Giants, Frank was also one of the diggers in Peak Cavern and he is present in a group photo in a local paper after a diving trip in Peak in which he was one of the Sherpas. Frank drowned in a canoeing accident at a weir on the River Irwell at the age of 17, only a few months after the Giants Hole breakthrough, and Maggin's Rift is named after him. The details are written up in the BSA Members Newsletters of the time and the first full account, with surveys, of Giants Hole in the BSA Journal is dedicated to Frank Maggin.
As well as caving in Giants, Frank was also one of the diggers in Peak Cavern and he is present in a group photo in a local paper after a diving trip in Peak in which he was one of the Sherpas. Frank drowned in a canoeing accident at a weir on the River Irwell at the age of 17, only a few months after the Giants Hole breakthrough, and Maggin's Rift is named after him. The details are written up in the BSA Members Newsletters of the time and the first full account, with surveys, of Giants Hole in the BSA Journal is dedicated to Frank Maggin.
Martin Laverty
Active member
The discussion so far has largely been about cavers of fairly recent times. However, Liv has introduced the 11th Century Heysham Graves, which takes us back towards the oldest memorials in caves (and what lured some of earliest modern cavers, such as Williams Pengelly and Dawkins, to caves) which are archaeological. From the Denisovans found in Siberia to the Hobbits of Flores to the Neanderthals and the young male 'Red Lady' of Gower we have cave interments. Perhaps we also have an accidental death in the skeleton found in OFD [ https://www.swcc.org.uk/aboutswcc/history/members/piwh_1/discovering_ofd.php ]. Perhaps some cave art attested to their achievements? Most enigmatic memorials of all, perhaps, are the handprints stencilled in ochre on cave walls [ http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/hand-stencils-rock-art.htm ]
Liv Preston
New member
Jenny P said:
Tales about mysterious skeletons are most certainly welcomed!
Similar threads
