cap n chris
Well-known member
graham said:
Nah, really?.... but cavers never argue.
mendip caves
- Thread starter ditzy 24//7
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Nah, really?.... but cavers never argue.
A
andymorgan
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
Knowing the length of a cave does matter. Imagine travelling 3 hours to visit Aveline's Hole, only to discover it is rather short! Also the length may give you ideas of how long a call out time you need. Ok, the terrain within the cave (boulders, squeezes, and climbs) will play a part, e.g. the 400m of Quaking Pot will be a long trip; but on average the distance travelled will pay a part.
And why does Whitelackington need to know how long a cave is? Because it is a fact, and cavers like facts. It is interesting to know how long Eastwater and UFS are now, so they can be compared with other caves in Mendip and the UK.
whitelackington
New member
andymorgan said:
Thankyou Mister Morgan a glimpse of sanity!
cap n chris
Well-known member
Andymorgan makes some good points.
Peter Burgess
New member
When the respective lengths of UFS and Eastwater are known, and compared to other caves, can you be sure they were measured using the same procedures? The comparison is of limited value if all the surveyors are doing is trying to out-do each other and claim a prize for the longeest cave. I recall when Ogof Ffynnon Ddu became the longest cave in the UK. It wasn't because more cave passage had been discovered it was because someone had revisited the survey and/or resurveyed parts of the cave in order to add some more passage length. In other words they looked at the cave passages in a different way, just as Cap 'n chris has done in Goatchurch, and claimed a longer passage length. As in any area of science, unless you use a consistent analytical approach, measurements for comparison purposes are of limited use.
graham
New member
Just to confuse Whitelackington, I shall offer up some data that he hasn't even asked for!
According to the data that Chris and I have just spent the morning re-checking, Goatchurch is 1531.5 m long (that's 5024.6ft or 0.95 miles in old money) and 62.1 m deep (203.9 ft).
So when we link up all the Burrington caves and survey them all properly, we'll have the longest cave in the UK. :-\
According to the data that Chris and I have just spent the morning re-checking, Goatchurch is 1531.5 m long (that's 5024.6ft or 0.95 miles in old money) and 62.1 m deep (203.9 ft).
So when we link up all the Burrington caves and survey them all properly, we'll have the longest cave in the UK. :-\
Peter Burgess
New member
The concept of 'passage length' is a bit limiting. I recall from my dim and distant days of higher education being told about catalyst pellets as used in the chemical industry. If I remember right, a porous pellet about the size of a large pill contains many miles of pores. It doesn't make the catalyst pellet any larger for being so porous.
whitelackington
New member
Unlike other "maze like" caves Upper Flood, like Tyning's Barrows Swallet & Swildons,
is a linear cave.
All the quoted length is proper cave passage, not counted several times on different levels, no poky side passages have been added to the total.
It is linearly a very long way from the entrance to the present lowest part of the cave, also much more to come.
Watch out Eastwater.
is a linear cave.
All the quoted length is proper cave passage, not counted several times on different levels, no poky side passages have been added to the total.
It is linearly a very long way from the entrance to the present lowest part of the cave, also much more to come.
Watch out Eastwater.
Peter Burgess
New member
Perhaps caves need a porosity index as well as a surveyed length. The lower the index the more impressive the quoted length. Goatchurch might be the Mendip cave with the highest porosity index!
D
Dep
Guest
If I had to define an algorithm to calculate the 'mathematical' length of any cave system I would do the following.
At any point in the cave it is possible to create a section - and within this section a central point can be defined.
Effectively the cave would be divided up into an infinite number of sections (by a computer obviously) and from this the central 'lines' of every passage and space can be defined. (anyone who has done calculus should think of Liebniz's integration method to calculate area under a graph, or volume of rotation of a complex curve - same basic principle)
The sum total length of al these lines (in fact one single complex line) will both define and give the mathematical length of the cave.
At any point in the cave it is possible to create a section - and within this section a central point can be defined.
Effectively the cave would be divided up into an infinite number of sections (by a computer obviously) and from this the central 'lines' of every passage and space can be defined. (anyone who has done calculus should think of Liebniz's integration method to calculate area under a graph, or volume of rotation of a complex curve - same basic principle)
The sum total length of al these lines (in fact one single complex line) will both define and give the mathematical length of the cave.
D
Dep
Guest
I suspect that with this method GB will cease to be the largest cave in the UK
Peter Burgess
New member
Cap 'n: Please send your Goatchurch data to Dep so he can demonstrate this novel approach to us.
whitelackington
New member
Who KNOWS,
which Mendip cave has the longest lineal distance between to points underground
(which a normal sized human can actually cave) ?
which Mendip cave has the longest lineal distance between to points underground
(which a normal sized human can actually cave) ?
cap n chris
Well-known member
I don't, but I'm not telling either.
Peter Burgess
New member
Well I'd tell Whitelackington if I knew, I'm a nice person. But I don't know so I can't. :tease:
