Metal steps in Trident Series (County Pot / Ease Gill)

[langcliffe]

I suspect very few cavers have done it either.

It's actually quite a popular wet weather exercise.

 

[IanWalker]

When chatting to the Trident installer (who is not to my knowledge an instructor) there was no mention of instructing, training, instructed groups, novices or the like.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I think the very fact that that user group was named ...

I've looked back up this thread and can't see a named user group. Who named a 'user group' what 'user group' did they name and where?

 

[Pete K]

I've looked back up this thread and can't see a named user group. Who named a 'user group' what 'user group' did they name and where?

Both sets of steps were in easy caves less than four miles apart that are popular with instructed groups.

Semantics aside, that is pointing a finger at a user group.

 

[Simon Wilson]

I've looked back up this thread and can't see a named user group. Who named a 'user group' what 'user group' did they name and where?

Both sets of steps were in easy caves less than four miles apart that are popular with instructed groups.

Semantics aside, that is pointing a finger at a user group.

Call them groups of beginners or people who are new to caving or whatever. People who spend time up there will be familier with minibuses and bunches of teenagers traipsing over the fell. It's a cave that is often visited by a certain type of person and they won't own a copy of NFTFH. I'm just going off what I've seen with my own eyes.

 

[cap n chris]

instructing, training, instructed groups, novices or the like.

...all of which are cavers. There is no distinction. People caving are cavers.

 

[droid]

Simon: you are faffing about. Say what you mean.

'I think that these aids were installed by Instructors/Guides to make the cave easier for their clients'.

 

[mikem]

When chatting to the Trident installer (who is not to my knowledge an instructor) there was no mention of instructing, training, instructed groups, novices or the like.

 

[droid]

I'm not trying to square a circle, Mike....

 

[cap n chris]

...to make the cave easier...

Less dangerous, perhaps.

 

[Jon]

Both sets of steps were in easy caves less than four miles apart that are popular with instructed groups.

I am told that Easegill is not open to instructed groups, the only exception being training (e.g. CIC assessments etc) for which a training permit is required.

I can't imagine any instructed group that would want to do the KMC traverse. What would be the point? I wouldn't be surprised if many/most of the instructed groups don't even do the pitch, let alone hundreds of metres of unnecessary traversing. CRO has about hundreds of metres of rope ready and bagged up for it, but what group is going to rig out 400m (or whatever it is) of traversing just to do a bit of horizontal via ferrata directly above easy walking passage? I suspect very few cavers have done it either.

I know of instructed groups that have done some or all of the KMC traverse but they were of the type that wouldn't need steps and the instructors certainly wouldn't even consider installing any.

 

[Badlad]

Perhaps the worst possible to end to this sorry tale.  A photo of the sawn off stirrups from yesterday.  Now just a load of irreparable damage.  In my view you didn't need these stirrups in the first place as there are IC anchors and fixed ropes.  However one stirrup would have been helpful and not much more intrusive than many other fixed aids in our caves.  Three was a bit over kill but still better than six useless sharp studs sticking out of the scalloped wall.  Gaining a bit of consensus before placement would have certainly helped.  Maybe it was the installer himself who sawed them off because of the disapproval of his actions or maybe it was someone else making a statement, whichever there will need to be further work done to minimise the damage and at least take the sharp edges off the studs.  See lower photo.

A rip to someones suit caused by the sawn off sharp edges.

 

[mch]

Christ, who would do this? It's now moved from being an eyesore to a danger!

 

[Alex]

Someone should take a lump hammer in on the next trip and squash those flat against the wall, would that work?

 

[droid]

Some poor bugger sat there thinking 'Can't do right for doing wrong'....

 

[Benfool]

Could it be something to do with the aggressive and accusatory nature of some of the posts on this forum?

B

 

[andrewmcleod]

Someone should take a lump hammer in on the next trip and squash those flat against the wall, would that work?

Angle grind flat with cutting disc and cover with mud/resin mix?

Best not to add further amateur work, though, and work through the CNCC for a consensus solution (who I'm sure would be happy for any volunteers).

 

[David Rose]

Marysboy, has the installer of the stirrups given you any idea why he installed them without taking any time to establish whether the wider caving comunuity would think they were a good idea?

Badlad's photos are depressing. Sheer unnecessary vandalism in one of Britain's finest and most popular caves, and now the creation of a new, serious hazard.

As for blaming this forum for the botched sawing off job: that beggars belief. I've been impressed at how mild and reasonable debate over this has been.

 

[MarkS]

One thing that puzzles me about this sort of thing is the lack of foresight from people that do it.

An individual taking a unilateral decision to install something that is clearly somewhat controversial can't really argue against someone else who disagrees with them and makes the unilateral decision to remove it.

Almost inevitably nobody wins.

 

[Speleotron]

One thing that puzzles me about this sort of thing is the lack of foresight from people that do it.

An individual taking a unilateral decision to install something that is clearly somewhat controversial can't really argue against someone else who disagrees with them and makes the unilateral decision to remove it.

Almost inevitably nobody wins.

Wait until you see what they've done to Wretched Rabbit Mark!