Mistral - the return match 26/03/2006

[Mr Fell]

It was murky and grim at Bull Pot Farm.Cavedrone was out with a cold. Frog came for a walk - still on the road to recovery - Rachel - road to the teashop ( it was mothers day - who'd blame her). Me and Dave were the remaining contenders - and after some hesitation I have to say (cause it was really grim first thing on Sun) we were changed and off over the fell. As we disappeared down the hole, Frog disappeared in the mist up Easegill with Salty.There must have been a doo on at BPF the night before. There were loads of cars parked - some with persons asleep in them - like as not refreshed after a nights indulgence in one or two herbal teas.

This time we made our way up to Gour Hall. Dave had not been before and was impressed by the vastness of Cross Hall and the formations along the way and also in Gour Hall itself. It was basically a quick romp about and we both had a good time - what more can I say. It had been a few weeks since I had been out, so the trip out through he entrance series took a bit longer than usual. Met a party from Newcastle Uni on the way out - they were off to the Cigalare no less.

Back on the surface the mist had gone but it had turned a bit windy.We retreated to Inglesport Cafe for food and chat.

It had rained for quite a long time the previous night - and the Lune had been almost as high as I have ever seen it on the way up.It was just as high on the way back home. As I write this it has been raining again for hours - god knows what it is like now!

Until the next time - when will spring kick in ! :roll: :roll:

 

[Frog]

Glad you both had a good trip. Me and Salty enjoyed our walk and were both suitably tired when we returned to the car.
Hopefully I will be able to venture underground with you next time.

 

[Cavedrone]

And I promise not to cough all over the lot of you !! :shock:

Sounds like a good trip. How was the mud?

 

[gus horsley]

I did Mistral not long after it was discovered and it was bloody tight and awkward, but I've heard that even a relative tub like myself could do it with ease now. Is that true?

 

[Billy Butcombe]

Mistral is quite managable for those of average size. For larger sizes it becomes incrementally more and more fun ! There are are three or four bends and one flat out bedding bit. The rest is smallish hands and knees. It is not genrally considered to be all that much of a problem - only way to tell is by having a go!! :wink:

 

[gus horsley]

Did it get artificially enlarged for rescue purposes or something? I just remember it being really awkward and I was quite slim then. A few people have more recently told me it's pretty easy now. I knew I should have waited a few years.

 

[Billy Butcombe]

It might have been for rescue purposes - but other reasons as well to do with digging/exploration probably. It was rather a contraversial dig at the time - and some felt it should have not been opend up - but that was in the past now and for better or worse the hole is open now.

 

[dunc]

Don't think it was enlarged for a rescue, it just happened, done by persons unknown and caused a stir from what I've heard, not sure if thats right or not??

 

[gus horsley]

Right, thanks for the info. It always seems a bit of a shame when that sort of thing happens. I'm not sure that the lower reaches of Pippikin should have been made more accessible that way. Still, like you say, it's been done now.

 

[Billy Butcombe]

Some of the folks that opened up Mistral are still very much about and have their tales to tell ! - anyway nuff said for now. :wink:

 

[cap n chris]

Apparently it's supposed to be quite awkward but being used (?) to Mendip caves I found it rather homely.

 

[BCMCXIV]

I don't see the problem with originally opening up Mistral at all... just because the entrance is there doesn't mean that you have to use it. I remember one drunk caver suggesting (tongue-in-cheek I hope) that they block up every entrance to Easegill except Petersen, to make the system a bit more sporting. This attitude seems a bit daft to me...

I've been told that in the past Mistral used to be quite tight. Nowadays it is a great trip for novices to do, and allows them to get down into great places like Hall of the Mountain King that they wouldn't otherwise get to see (which might help to get them hooked on caving for life)... and is almost certainly flood-proof. If it was widened at one time then I'm not sure I agree with this or not... because if this attitude was widespread then it would ruin some fine caves... but, on the otherhand, it does allow a larger number of people to get into (or out of) the system more easily, so perhaps that is a good thing? Maybe it should be the decision of the original pushing party as to how far something should be widened (or perhaps I'm talking bollocks as usual).

 

[Cavedrone]

I think if Billy cut back on his high flying lifestyle and diet of
intravenously fed brandy and butcombe gold cocktails he would
discover there is plenty of room.

Anthony Sharratt and Kate Bush fitted through at the same time
I seem to remember

 

[graham]

I don't see the problem with originally opening up Mistral at all... just because the entrance is there doesn't mean that you have to use it. I remember one drunk caver suggesting (tongue-in-cheek I hope) that they block up every entrance to Easegill except Petersen, to make the system a bit more sporting. This attitude seems a bit daft to me...

I've been told that in the past Mistral used to be quite tight. Nowadays it is a great trip for novices to do, and allows them to get down into great places like Hall of the Mountain King that they wouldn't otherwise get to see (which might help to get them hooked on caving for life)... and is almost certainly flood-proof. If it was widened at one time then I'm not sure I agree with this or not... because if this attitude was widespread then it would ruin some fine caves... but, on the otherhand, it does allow a larger number of people to get into (or out of) the system more easily, so perhaps that is a good thing? Maybe it should be the decision of the original pushing party as to how far something should be widened (or perhaps I'm talking bollocks as usual).

Ask SWCC how they now feel about having opened up OFD Top Entrance.

 

[dunc]

If it was widened at one time then I'm not sure I agree with this or not... because if this attitude was widespread then it would ruin some fine caves... but, on the otherhand, it does allow a larger number of people to get into (or out of) the system more easily, so perhaps that is a good thing?

You said it - ruin - allowing large numbers of peope easy access to what would otherwise be more remote parts of a cave is a very long way from being a good reason..
Graham provides a fine viewpoint on the matter with OFD/Top Ent!! Its things like that that make me understand why only one entrance is wanted at Draenen!

 

[BCMCXIV]

You said it - ruin - allowing large numbers of peope easy access to what would otherwise be more remote parts of a cave is a very long way from being a good reason..

I'm not really arguing one way or the other really... just giving the arguments from both sides. I just reckon that it is a pretty subjective line to cross. Imagine finding a new bit of cave that you and some friends are pushing... until you reach a tight bit that you and your mates can't get past... perhaps with a bit of effort though, one freakishly skinny member of your party can get make it though... do you widen the passage to get everyone through? Or do you give up and leave the thin caver to it... so as not to ruin the challenge of the cave for the tiny minority of people who can fit through like him?

Like I say, I don't really have a really firm viewpoint... but as I stated above, in a multi-entrance system, just because an entrance is there, doesn't mean it has to be used. If pressed I would say that the initial pushing party should be the only people permitted to widen the cave, and only as an aid to further exploration. Once the cave is established, it shouldn't be messed with.

 

[gus horsley]

I feel ambivalent about creating access which is too easy. Easy access usually means more traffic which usually leads to conservation problems. Then again, why should skinny contortionists have all the fun? There's a balance which has to be achieved here.

I could also use a climbing analogy. People would go beserk if an extreme suddenly acquired a chipped hold which lowered the grade to Vdiff.

 

[graham]

The problem with Mistral is that it wasn't a case of someone pushing a new cave, it was simply a dig to get a quicker way into the bottom of Pip.

Now, Pip was such a great trip that having done it one Saturday & finding it already rigged, two of us shot back down it on the Sunday. That was an excellent rapid efficient trip into Pippikin, up the Cigaliere and back out, all in good time to get back to Bristol that evening.

When Mistral was first opened at least it was too tight to allow much traffic, now it's been widened and it is easy to get in and out that way. that cannot be good for conservation.

OK, I never expected that at my fairly advanced age I could get down there again. But frankly, I don't want to. Not like that.

 

[tubby two]

When was mistral enlarged then? I knew it used to be ridiculously tight and had been enlarged but i assumed this was many many years ago. I've been told it was an 18m long, pitchless, flood-free and relativley stable grade 4, which suggests silly silly tight.

I always thought it quite handy to have a nice slide down pip, and a potter round the lower reaches without having to go back out and reverse those squeezes, but like i say- i never knew it any other way, and i can easily see the conservation point when you think how much we use mistral for a wet days caving.

tt.

 

[andymorgan]

This is an interesting debate that I have always wondered about: should a cave be widened to allow fat people though, and where do you draw the line at what the maximum body size should be...