Moorhouse is back!

[whitelackington]

If what I have read is true this man should be kept away from beginners and contributors to the thread could argue that they are performing a public service. I just wish some of them were not so obviously enjoying themselves: for the 2nd time this year on this part of the forum. I`m starting to feel sorry for Mr Moorhouse. It`s a bit like watching a Question Time audience and panel gang up on Nick Griffin. Or a foxhunt.

Hunting Nick Griffin with hounds, yes, I can see the fun in that. 

Shame on you Graham  :

 

[david3392]

Thanks bubba. I'm simply urging people to be be less vitriolic and abusive about this chap.  Martinr's link clearly shows we are to some risk.  I'm also concerned we are losing our sense of decency and fair play about our fellow human beings :halo: Regards, David

 

[Brains]

He has a right of reply, if he will not or can not make use of it perhaps those that know him could put his version of events and reasoning forward for balance. Is there any corroborative evidence for his claimed achievements or membership of particular groups? Can he substantiate his skills base he has claimed to have?
If as seems likely none of this can be shown, and given the indications of MH issues, what help could those that know him, or the rest of us, provide? Is there anything we can do to help him and prevent reoccurance of third parties being put at risk?
:doubt: :blink:

 

[Coxie]

Setting up his rescue team is clearly a coping strategy for him to deal with his loss

What loss? Did any of that really happen? It sounds made up to me tbh.

I really don't think you can discredit his post on that forum, it should be taken 100% seriously.  If he has sought help form the mental health sector in the past they probably aren't aware that he's endangered other people as information given to them would have been on his terms.

If they were aware would that have changed their response?

 

[Stoneyman 1]

David thank you. You have said what a number of people reading this thread must have thought.

I would not comment of Moorehouse's ability,activities or state of mind, to do so could leave me open to litigation. Because I have not meet him & am not in a position to form a judgment.

I would think that some of the comments on this forum could leave the people posting them in a similar position in a number of different ways, frightening. Being on the net does not allow people to make the kind of statements  expresses here, it is a public forum  open to anyone.  The administrates can not hide behind "a clause" in the registration as this could be challenged. They do have a responsibility.

Finally, this kind of pillorying of another human being is not acceptable, let have some decency. I suspect that people get carried away with the issue. Stop & thing please. You are not showing yourselves, this forum
or the caving world in a good light. Please call a halt to this thread.

 

[bubba]

I really don't think you can discredit his post on that forum, it should be taken 100% seriously.

I would take his post on the other forum more seriously if it didn't talk about "during a rescue", "as a team leader", etc as we know this wasn't the case.

He may well have been suicidal and that's not something that any of us can dispute nor is something that should be ridiculed. I feel that it's not really an avenue that we should explore as it's really none of our business.

The only thing that I would say is that his apparently fragile mental state is perhaps even more of a reason for him not to be leading parties of novices into hazardous environments.

I would not comment of Moorehouse's ability,activities or state of mind, to do so could leave me open to litigation. Because I have not meet him & am not in a position to form a judgment.

I can only speak for myself but the only comment that I have made is that he has lied about belonging to rescue organisations. Surely whether you've met him or not is irrelevant?

The administrates can not hide behind "a clause" in the registration as this could be challenged. They do have a responsibility.

I'm not hiding behind anything, I'm just making it clear that I provide the software and the database, the posts/opinions/etc of users are their own. I/we moderate anything that we believe crosses the line of acceptability.  The last time I took legal advice on a similar matter then I was reassured that the forum could not be prosecuted. If you are a lawyer, or know a lawyer that specialises in internet law then it would be good to clarify such issues.

Finally, this kind of pillorying of another human being is not acceptable, let have some decency.

The issue here is that this guy is taking novices into hazardous situations without the expertise to back it up. The folly of this has been demonstrated in the past as there was a very real accident in Giants.

You may see it as "pillorying" but I believe it's important that this person's activities receive publicity in the hope that others may see it and he's not allowed to gain access to leadership of parties of unwitting novices in the future.

What's more important, not hurting one guy's feelings or preventing people from getting killed in a cave?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Messing with people's heads is a very dangerous thing to do. Just as irresponsible as leading innocent novices into dangerous situations, because both can easily lead to physical harm, and none of us want that I hope.

 

[bubba]

Who's messing with his head?

So what should we do? Just leave him to it?

 

[Stoneyman 1]

Bubba, I have read your last 2 posts. Your response to mine was balanced and I would not disagree with anything you said in that post.

I can not advise you; disclaimers do not absolve administrators of responsibility, its all about whether you acted responsibly / negligently in allowing the posts. Lets all hope this is never challenged in relationship to this tread.

David & Peter are right in what they say, heed David, he has much experience in that area.

Re your second post: To answer the question "what should we do".  If you & others feel so strongly about this man activities take some "advise" as to how he might be "called off" & by whom. It will not be achieved by this thread, because it will not reach his "target market", joe public. So it serves no purpose other then allowing people to vent their feeling about his activities.
Some of the comments have crossed over what is acceptable & decent to say about another person. This does not show the individuals, the forum or Derbyshire caving in a good light.

If you & others really feel strongly that this man is dangerous, find some constructive way to stop him. BUT please do it privately, not in the public domain.

 

[Bushman]

[quote author=bubba]
...

What is a bannable offence?
I think we all know what is and what isn't acceptable on this forum but for the benefits of new or recent users.

    * Trolling and malicious hijacking of topics.
    * Personal insults/attacks/threats - we're all adults, keep it civil.
    * Hatred: Sexism/Racism/etc - most of us know what is and isn't acceptable and what is and isn't real hatred.

...
[/quote]
Erm we not following rules anymore?

 

[bubba]

Erm we not following rules anymore?

What are you talking about? Where is any kind of serious personal insult, attack or threat?

If you don't like this topic then don't keep coming back and reading it.

 

[Bushman]

...Where is any kind of serious personal insult, attack or threat?...

Have you read any of this topic? The whole thing is personal attack.

If you don't like this topic then don't keep coming back and reading it.

No. This topic is not doing Derbyshire cavers any good at all and needs stopping.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

There was a 'lock this thread' request a few days ago. I've been away since then and have only just had a chance to read recent posts. I was a bit queasy about the way things were going when I posted my previous response, and had my initial doubts re-confirmed when catching up. I don't know this guy, will probably never meet him, but it isn't on to hatchet job someone on a public forum like this. If someone has any reason to think he's a risk to himself or others, then presumably there's someone in 'authority' who can be approached.


Robin

 

[bubba]

It will not be achieved by this thread, because it will not reach his "target market", joe public.

I absolutely disagree. This guy was originally brought to light on these forums in 2004. Since then I've had quite a few people contact me regarding him. This is because by typing his name into Google search, this site is high on the list of results. A lot of "joe public" know how to use Google.

I'm happy to keep it that way - in this case publicity is good. If you don't feel comfortable reading about it then avoid the topic.

 

[bubba]

Have you read any of this topic? The whole thing is personal attack.

It's not a personal attack at all - I have nothing against Andrew Moorhouse, I just want him to stop telling people that he's some sort of rescue-hero in order to ensnare beginners and take them into harms way. If he stopped doing that then I suspect all of us would be happy never to hear his name again. A public health warning isn't a personal attack.

 

[Servo]

Thanks Bubba, i think you have summed it up perfectly. Surely the more people fully aware the better.

If you start sugar coating things and tip toeing around the fact then whats going to help prevent a serious incident?

 

[graham]

I have intentionally kept out of this thread, as i do not know either the people or the issues involved. However given the way the thread has trended I would ask:

Do any of the people who are unhappy with this thread know exactly what happened on the day of the rescue from Giant's and, if so, could they enlighten us?

 

[zomjon]

Wouldn't just a single, clearly written warning about Mr Moorhouse and our concerns, kept at the top of the Derbyshire and Newbies page suffice. I expect if we all came across each other more frequently underground, and noted each others' caving techniques, we'd soon decide that some people were just not safe to cave with (or too fast, too adventurous, too bloody slim or just too boring!)

 

[zomjon]

And that's to be a locked topic, there's enough tribal warfare going on in Wales at present!

 

[scoobz]

I have been friends with Andrew for the past 4 months, and contrary to what people are saying in here, he is not "a complete loon". I can't believe what some people who have probably never met him are coming out with in here.

So perhaps you can put the record straight then? What are his motives for preying on beginners and gaining their trust by giving them a misleading picture of his expertise, and inventing bogus credentials?

I have absolutely no idea what his motives are, as I myself are an "absolute beginner" who trusted him to lead me safely in and out of Giant's Hole. He's just come over to me as a likeable guy, who's tried his best to make friends with members of the Walking Group I'm a member of, in all sorts of different ways. The worst thing I can personally accuse him of is over exuberance, and over confidence in other people's abilities. Not for a minute could I ever say that he concocted a situation on purpose so that he could get some sort of "hero status". Out of a need to maybe impress people with his caving knowledge and experience he encouraged people who probably weren't physically capable to go down Garland's, that's the only critiscism I can level at him in the 4 months I have known him.
Incidentally, probably because he's been following this thread, he's now more or less uncontactable. 

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