Mossdale.

[Buckden Bill]

Published in the October edition of the Dalesman is an article about a proposed 90 minute documentary film someone is hoping to make about the Mossdale tragedy in 1967. I think this is totally inappropriate, the memory of those 6 cavers should be left to rest in peace, the cavers of the Dale's and beyond, not to mention the close family members were shaken to the core by this accident it should be left alone.

 

[alanw]

This request from April this year? https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/a-mossdale-documentary.31711/

 

[Lankyman]

This request from April this year? https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?threads/a-mossdale-documentary.31711/

If the documentary is done with sensitivity and not sensationalised (like so much 'caving' material online) then my personal view is that it is appropriate. I would hope that the six men's memory and the tremendous effort to try and rescue them would be kept alive rather than disappear.

 

[Pitlamp]

It wasn't my generation (I was just a very young child at the time) but I know a lot of people who are still around and active on the caving scene who lost six very good friends in that flood. Some of them go up there every year. There's also a great many locals in the dale who remember it. I tend to agree with Lankyman that if it's going to be done, it must be done well - and sensitively. However, information about the accident will never "disappear" - there's a great many contemporary accounts in caving publications which will always bear testamant to the magnificent effort to try to save those six cavers. There are audio recordings available by people who were directly involved in the rescue effort and also at least one documentary in existence.

There are lots of examples on You Tube of how video coverage of such tragedies should not be done. The people who produce them don't seem to spare a thought that loved ones or close friends are likely to see these videos, which often reduce the tragic stories of how fellow human beings lost their lives to the status of trivial entertainment. Some of them are just awful.

Please understand; I've no reason to suspect that those interested in making this film aren't going to make a good job of it. But what could be the possible negative effects on the caving community? Will it underline how "dangerous" caving "is"? (In which case I hope it slips under BCA's insurers' radar.) Would it influence the ability for cavers to visit in the future? (Think carefully about this latter point.) I'm perhaps not the only caver who is at least a bit wary of such a project.

 

[Space Doubt Caver]

There are a few online documentaries about the Mossdale incident,
I do find it disturbing that YouTubers are making money for telling the story.

But I appreciate that it's important to keep the story alive to remind us of how humbling and dangerous caves can be under certain conditions.

Telling the story of Mossdale is also telling the story, of the turning point for cave rescue techniques and further advancement in cave rescue teams and training i'd appreciate hearing the story from the cave rescues point.

I'd like to see a documentary about Simon Beck, and his amazing efforts mapping and pushing the exploration further.

I think a documentary keeping the story of the lost cavers alive is important not only for the cavers who lost their lives, but for those who moved heaven and earth to try and save them.

 

[spelfish]

Given that the outcome is known and completely awful, it's hard to see how anyone could make an interesting documentary that didn't dwell excessively on the six men who drowned. There might be a little balance in stressing the efforts of the would-be rescuers but I can't see it being more than depressing (at best) or disaster porn (at worst).

 

[Alex]

I don't believe in-fact I am almost certain that this will be anything like the normal You-tube crap are like, and would be done very tastefully with a lot of talk on modern exploration and rescue. Dan Hartley is a professional director, who is Yorkshire born and bred and done some very thought provoking stuff in the past.

I am not sure I understand the original post when they seem to suggest that the memory should be forgotten by "leaving the memory in peace"? Surely that's the last thing that should happen? Because if we do, then should we also then say, do away with the all the world war 1 and 2 films and documentaries, heck why not cancel the poppy parade itself?

Provided its done respectfully, and tells the stories of these great pioneers of the past, then why should it not be done, lest there exploits be forgotten forever. I know if it was me who drowned in there, I would not want to be forgotten.

 

[Lankyman]

But what could be the possible negative effects on the caving community? Will it underline how "dangerous" caving "is"? (In which case I hope it slips under BCA's insurers' radar.) Would it influence the ability for cavers to visit in the future? (Think carefully about this latter point.) I'm perhaps not the only caver who is at least a bit wary of such a project.

I can understand your wariness about problems with access and the effect on insurance but isn't there already enough sensationalised tripe online for this to have happened if it was ever going to?

 

[Alex]

I meant to put that this will not be anything like the usual Youtube crap. edit time expired.

 

[Alex]

I can understand your wariness about problems with access and the effect on insurance but isn't there already enough sensationalised tripe online for this to have happened if it was ever going to?

It's also been a hell of a long time since anything like this has happened, the insures will use cold hard statistics when working these things out, I doubt any YT or documentaries are going to change it.

 

[hyweldavies]

It's also been a hell of a long time since anything like this has happened, the insures will use cold hard statistics when working these things out, I doubt any YT or documentaries are going to change it.

Also regarding insurance, it's worth noting there was no third party liability claim never mind any moneys paid

 

[Badlad]

Insurance is a red herring issue. Worth noting that you don't need insurance to go caving in the Dales, with the exception of just a few access arrangements where you are required to be a BCA member (Fairy Hole, Robinsons, etc). You also don't need insurance to go climbing at Twistleton, walking the three peaks, mountain biking Long lane, horse riding above Wharf, etc etc.

 

[Pitlamp]

I think Badlad's post above is perhaps an oversimplification but that's not the reason for this particular post.

For the avoidance of doubt (mainly to reassure Lankyman and Alex), Ill reiterate a sentence of mine above: "Please understand; I've no reason to suspect that those interested in making this film aren't going to make a good job of it."

 

[Mr Dinwiddy]

I'd like to see a documentary about Simon Beck, and his amazing efforts mapping and pushing the exploration further.

I agree with your point about SB. That could be an amazing film

 

[ChrisB]

I read the statement from the filmmaker in the earlier post (linked by alanw in post #2) and was reassured that the film would be sensitive and not sensationalised. My impression was that he was introducing the film to cavers at an early stage so that all sensitivities could be drawn to his attention and addressed properly.

 

[Pitlamp]

That's encouraging, at least.

 

[mikem]

We are still assuming it is the same project, which seems likely, but not yet proven...

 

[Cantclimbtom]

Perhaps interested parties could contact the person in that last thread to ask him if it's the same, he gave his full name, email and phone number. So people could just ask. No need to assume either way.

I hope it is the same, as that last thread seemed to be worded very respectfully.

 

[mikem]

Or check in the Dalesman to see if it is Dan Hartley (he also registered on here but hasn't logged in since mid May)

 

[KBrook]

I've met Dan so far as he's done some preliminary chats with Jack Pickup and my dad in Bernies and he also turned up to the anniversary meet this year. He seems a respectful guy who not just after making a tragedy porn flick, He's more interested in the cave and the exploration and what brings people back there despite the disaster. The idea of the film is actually going to be about Mossdale the cave not the tragedy and the centre piece will be Simon Beck and his current work in there.

Obviously you can't make a film about Mossdale and not mention the disaster. It will likely be a part of it but not the complete story and if we as cavers don't engage with film makers to get our side of it out there sensationalist media like the youtube disaster porn people will run away with it and dominate the story.