New Avanti leg loops slipping

[topcat]

After what wasn't very much SRT yesterday I noticed that the leg loops on my new (orange) Avanti  harness had slipped..

Yes they were correctly threaded.

The tail ends are normally 4" , they'd slipped to only 2".
And my hips are very sore today....

Has anyone else had the same?

 

[cap n chris]

Hard to comment without photos of the relevant issue.

 

[Ian Ball]

I was thinking you meant down the backs of the legs, but you mean through the buckle.  I've never experienced this ever with any harness, it's usually more an issue to try and force a bit through as my harness has shrunk since the last time I went caving  :-[.

 

[HardenClimber3]

I got a 'new' Avanti a few years ago (getting a bit worn now) and was struck by how much the leg loops slipped. This improved somewhat with time, but still seems to happen a it (so on a long trip not infrequently needed to tighten them). Others have noted something similar. (and yes, they are doubled back)

 

[topcat]

Hard to comment without photos of the relevant issue.

if you understand what a tail.end means, surely it's clear enough without photos ?

Looking at the replies it seems Avanti harnesses are prone to it but others less so?    I had an A/V harness that did slip a bit, but over a few trips, and never by so much as my current one.

Solutions? Other than sewing them.  This would work well but would cause problems for the odd full wetsuit day when adjustments are required.

 

[Ian P]

Solutions? Other than sewing them.  This would work well but would cause problems for the odd full wetsuit day when adjustments are required.
[/quote]


Obviously Never ever ever alter PPE  :spank:

*cough*. How about some thick sewing just in the right place on the tail end of the harness. Thick enough to butt up against the buckle but just enough clearance that you could make it bigger by passing the buckle over said stitching. ?

Alternatively Stop doing those ?silly? trips you so fond of   

 

[topcat]

That's a good idea Ian......I'll ponder it some more.

PPE that is working its way to failure needs modifying asap!

My silly trips have relatively little rope time, and srt kit is often off between the short pitches.  Your kind of trips might leave me hanging on a waist belt !

 

[chrisdb]

We bought 8 x new SuperAvanti and 2 x Aven. The tape is now orange rather than red. It feels thinner and slicker than previously.
On my own new SuperAvanti the leg loop came completely undone half way up a 32 metre pitch.
The following weekend it got a lot looser but I noticed and tightened it.
The tape is so much thinner than previously on these new orange harnesses that after you have correctly doubled it back, it can easier be fitted into the buckle a THIRD time.
Then with the new work superavantis we had several clients where the tape loosened, and in one case came completely undone.
We also had a client where on the main belt buckle, the anti-abrasion strap stayed in place but the actual belt loosened - terrifying.
I forwarded this the the Petzl UK Rep Naomi Taylor ntaylor@petzl.co.uk who said she had not heard of this anywhere else.
So, if anyone else has experienced this it would be great if you could contact Naomi directly so there is a body of evidence.

 

[SqueezyPete]

I did some absolutely miserable SRT in one of these and didn't notice anything untoward yet. Will keep an eye out. Bit worrying when I bet most people (me at least) go for a superavanti as it's bog standard reliable kit.

 

[AKuhlmann]

I had this problem to

We bought 8 x new SuperAvanti and 2 x Aven. The tape is now orange rather than red. It feels thinner and slicker than previously.
On my own new SuperAvanti the leg loop came completely undone half way up a 32 metre pitch.
The following weekend it got a lot looser but I noticed and tightened it.
The tape is so much thinner than previously on these new orange harnesses that after you have correctly doubled it back, it can easier be fitted into the buckle a THIRD time.
Then with the new work superavantis we had several clients where the tape loosened, and in one case came completely undone.
We also had a client where on the main belt buckle, the anti-abrasion strap stayed in place but the actual belt loosened - terrifying.
I forwarded this the the Petzl UK Rep Naomi Taylor ntaylor@petzl.co.uk who said she had not heard of this anywhere else.
So, if anyone else has experienced this it would be great if you could contact Naomi directly so there is a body of evidence.

I had exactly this problem today on some Tyrolean zip lines... leg loop completely failed halfway across! Thankfully it was a short zip and the other one held but it was scary. The other loop's safety had completely slipped though it held. I've never had this problem with the older superavantis and it seems to me to be caused by the shorter leg loops, thinner material and slippery-er material used on the newer ones. I'll be emailing Naomi and being hyper vigilant about my leg loops for now on. I noticed after I had re adjusted it that after little movement they were nearly halfway to the safety being undone again 😬

 

[topcat]

There is another change between the old and new Avanti which may be the cause of, or a major contribution to, the slippage:

The new maillon attachment loops are 20mms shorter per side. 40mms total, which is a lot.

Given that the maillon / omni krab is a fixed length this means that the rest of the harness in the area of the top of the leg loops must sit in a different place to the old, and therefore will be subjected to a different pull..........

I've not had a loop come undone, but they do become very slack, I notice and deal with it, sometimes more than once a trip.

It's all a bit naff. Putting in politely. Not really fit for purpose, downright dangerous and a heap of white (bless the auto correct)..... would be more accurate.

 

[pwhole]

The MTDE Club is a perfectly adequate (if not superior) harness compared to the Avanti, and it doesn't have this problem at all. I've long ditched all Petzl gear for caving except my Pantin now, and that will be replaced with a Camp Turbofoot when it dies. I do use Petzl gear for rope-access, as it's a different market, and they clearly spend a lot more money and time on designing this kit better (apart from my ASAP sheath, whose fasteners failed after only one week's use - not replaceable). But given the number of people who have posted this leg-strap problem just on here, there must be many more out there having the same problem - and a life-preserving feature not working properly means it should be recalled, IMO, until it's been properly investigated, and if shown to be defective, should be removed from the market immediately. If the leg straps can come open, so can the waist strap.

Imagine trying to sue Petzl because a close relative died halfway through a caving trip due to a harness failure, with all the ambiguities inherent in the situation and reporting of it. It doesn't bear thinking about. Imagine Petzl saying: "Yeah, looks like we fucked up there! Just give them the ten million and move on"? No, neither can I. So they need to know now, and publicly.

 

[Ian Ball]

What do the instructions say?

 

[Pete K]

The page on the Petzl website is here: https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Harnesses/SUPERAVANTI
Page 2 of the user instructions covers fastening the harness. There is no trick to it. https://www.petzl.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/0686800000B6FoPAAV

 

[Speleo Ninja]

I recently used my new Aven harness for the first time. I experienced the (properly tightened) leg loops slipping down the back of my legs constantly when moving through the cave. This hasn't been a problem on other Petzl caving harnesses I own. I also experienced constant pinching from the leg loops of the Aven when prussiking. Between pitches on the way out I tried tightening and then loosening the loops to find a point where the intolerable pinching stopped, but nothing seemed to help. Comparing how this harness is constructed to others I have that don't have this pinching problem, the major difference appears to be that the leg loops on the Aven are lower relative to the central attachment point, and hence sit slightly lower on your legs due to the way the harness is constructed. I bought the Aven as it was advertised as being a more comfortable harness. I wonder who they tested this on, as I've had the complete opposite experience so far!

 

[Steve Clark]

I find the Aven more comfortable than the superavanti - more like a climbing harness. The fit is definitely different and I find it helps with overturning/balance.

Now, I’m big person 6ft3/110kg and have a size 2 aven harness with the waist belt at max extension with an 8cm tail on the double backed buckle.

I’ve not noticed it slipping a lot, but it has moved over a trip. With only 8cm, that is a bit of a worry….

I prefer the fit and stability of the MTDE picos, but it only just fit with very little tail on the waist strap.

 

[pwhole]

I too prefer the Picos for comfort, but it's a bit heavy and cumbersome for lightweight or tight trips (and won't fit in a small bag) so I got a Club as well. Anyway, it's not a MTDE promo and I haven't used the new Avanti, so I'll shut up, but interested to hear how it pans out.

 

[Ian Ball]

3. Inspection
During Use
Regularly verify that the adjustment buckles and the connector are properly fastened and locked.


How often is regularly?

 

[topcat]

Probably after every pitch! And crawl. And stomp along the streamway. And after lunch...

 

[andrewmcleod]

The page on the Petzl website is here: https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Harnesses/SUPERAVANTI
Page 2 of the user instructions covers fastening the harness. There is no trick to it. https://www.petzl.com/sfc/servlet.shepherd/version/download/0686800000B6FoPAAV

Interesting that they show doing up the leg loops first, while I always tell people to loosen the leg loops, pull the harness up and tighten the waist first to avoid ending up with the harness sitting too low...