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New Book: Caves and Karst of the Yorkshire Dales

nickwilliams

Well-known member
Blimey, Pitlamp - it's not like you to be cavalier with the pennies  ;)

Having thought about this today, I think it's probably true to say that had the only option been the hard back version at 50 odd quid, I'd not have commented since that's the going rate (indeed, quite cheap) for a high quality, low volume academic publication these days. It's the fact that the difference between the hard back and soft back versions is so high that comes as a bit of a surprise. However, that's actually because the soft back is extraordinarily good value rather than because the hard back is over priced.

Nick.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Thanks Robert - coming from someone from the other side of the great Pennine frontier, that's a very great compliment!

Seriously though, this discussion shouldn't be about a few quid either way. That's a detail compared with the high quality of the book's contents. Tony and Deej have a rare ability to make what can be a complex subject undertstandable to the ordinary caver in the pub. Once all this knowledge becomes accessible in this way, you discover just how fascinating it really is.

I'm now a bit further into reading it - and I'm finding it difficult to put down. Lots of long standing questions are being answered for me, page by page.
 

NigR

New member
Regarding the pricing of this book, I agree with the views expressed by Graham and others that the pricing differential between hardback and paperback is too much.

Regarding the content, it sounds great and I would very much like to purchase a copy.

However, I cannot really justify the cost of the hardback so if I do purchase one it will probably have to be the cheaper version. I am very, very fussy about the condition of my books and am wary about mail order unless I can be sure about the packing provided by the supplier, particularly if the book concerned is a softcover. So, if anyone who has had a copy arrive by post could let us all know what the packing was like and what condition the book arrived in I would be most grateful.
 

Les W

Active member
So what I'm hearing here is that if the soft back version had been priced at say ?35 then everybody would have been happy...  :confused:
 

langcliffe

Well-known member
Les W said:
So what I'm hearing here is that if the soft back version had been priced at say ?35 then everybody would have been happy...  :confused:

Not me - I'm very happy with my ?25 bargain.
 

Les W

Active member
But nobody was really complaining too much that the hardback price was too high, just that the differential was too big. If the soft back was more expensive then the differential would be less and everybody would be happy...

Or have I got that wrong  :unsure:
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
Given the cost of a tank of fuel, i.e. how much it costs to go caving, the cost of a nice hardback book for ever seems pretty reasonable to me.

Stop being bloody tight and buy one.

Chris.
 

graham

New member
I think perchance that you have got that wrong, young Les. I am not complaining about the cost of the softback, but about the cost of the binding for the hardback. This seems excessive.

And I'm not being tight, ChrisJC, I can afford it, I'm thinking of club libraries where hardbacks are more suitable but resources are scarce.

In much the same way that I complain that the individual sub for something like Antiquity is far lower than the institutional price. Rip Off.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
graham said:
I think perchance that you have got that wrong, young Les. I am not complaining about the cost of the softback, but about the cost of the binding for the hardback. This seems excessive.

And I'm not being tight, ChrisJC, I can afford it, I'm thinking of club libraries where hardbacks are more suitable but resources are scarce.

In much the same way that I complain that the individual sub for something like Antiquity is far lower than the institutional price. Rip Off.


Meanwhile, back to what actually matters. I'm now halfway through the book and it just seems to get better and better as the pages turn. I've read so many caving books over the years and I have no hesitation in recommending this one.
 
Book delivered by courier today in solid cardboard wrapper. Contents in perfect condition.

Book is outstanding. Can't wait (but will probably have to) for Volume 2.

AT
 

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
Yes, mine just arrived. Looks stunning. Quality of diagrams, photos and maps very high. Graham's right though that for heavy usage, particularly as it's a large format (A4), hardback would be a must.

Robin
 

pete rose

New member
and yes my hardback arrived today and looks very good, but why no dust jacket? i have always collected books with a dust jacket. please why not? ordered on the 13th ,arrived 16th
 

dunc

New member
Another one (softback) arrived just a short while back, dropped through my letterbox by courier, perfect condition, packaged in pretty much standard style cardboard wrapper as used by numerous other companies (eg Amazon).
As for the book, a quick flick through, just to drool at photographs, diagrams and the like; looks mighty fine. Will make a start reading it later.  (y)
 

TheBitterEnd

Well-known member
It's like Christmas, mine also arrived today, perfect condition just had a skim through it and it looks great, full colour, tons of diagrams and photos and excellent value for money - given the specialist nature of it, I'd have paid twice the price  (y)
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Happily, it looks like this book is being very well received amongst cavers who have a serious interest in the Dales.

In the hopes that some readers may be interested in my own perspective on all of this, I started caving as a very young child; I was lucky to be under the wing of various noteworthy individuals who soon gave me opportunities to become interested in more than just testing myself against increasingly difficult underground experiences. They steered me towards looking for new caves to discover and also towards trying to understand how the remarkable cave systems of the Dales - and the stunningly beautiful landscapes above them - have developed over time. This was a very precious gift and I've remained fascinated ever since.

A landmark event in my early caving days was the appearance of "Limestones & Caves of North West England" edited by Tony Waltham in 1974. Many of the most experienced cave explorers in the Dales contributed and this has occupied a prominent position on my book shelves ever since. It prompted me to delve deeper into caving publications and scientific journals, a habit which I kept up. Then, inevitably as time passed, this book started to become out of date - though still an invaluable source of information.

Over the years there has been talk on and off about reproducing a new version of this book to bring it up to date with all the new discoveries and research which has happened since (with Phil Murphy taking great credit for actually getting things moving). At last, we now have Caves & Karst of the Yorkshire Dales, edited by Tony Waltham and Deej Lowe. I've had to wait 39 years for this latest milestone event in my own understanding and it has not disappointed.

Tony and Deej have brought together a team of well known cavers and researchers and have condensed their collective experience; the results are stunning. The editors have the ability to interpret vast amounts of speleological knowledge in a way which "ordinary" cavers can easily understand. It's a very attractive and colourful book; almost every page is richly illustrated. This is essential reading for any serious Dales caver and, even for those who focus mainly on other caving areas, there is a vast amount of relevant information. If ever they invited me to be interviewed for Radio 4's "Desert Island Discs" (highly unlikely, I know!) - and I was allowed only one book, this would be the one I'd insist on having with me.

Of course, this is only the first of two volumes. The second one will focus in detail on each of the specific catchments in the Dales caving area. The list of contributors is almost a "who's who?"of the Yorkshire Dales caving scene and I can't wait for this second volume to appear as well.

Even in today's technologically advanced society, it's still no mean achievement to produce a specialised book to such high standards for a relatively limited market. Thanks you Tony, Deej and all other contributors. You've done us proud.

Look out for a full review in the next edition of BCA's "Speleology" magazine. I expect Descent will also have further information.
 
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