Observations on CNCC meeting
- Thread starter Badlad
- Start date
Bottlebank
New member
No problem, actually I'd be happy to stand if it didn't mean attending meetings - I detest them
I'd be happy to help or do other work if needed though.
Bottlebank
New member
Jon said:
I've discussed this with a lot of people over the last few months, no one has suggested replacing the CNCC, everyone simply wants it to do what it is supposed to.
As an example some diggers are concerned that as nowadays we have to get permission from Natural England to dig if other members of their club are caught pirating it could jeopardise future permissions. So they would prefer to get permits rather than carry on ignoring the system as they always have, and if they could log in online and get them at short notice they would. As someone else said, the caving world is changing, and CNCC can't keep ignoring the change.
graham
New member
stu said:And from the other end of the telescope...
History shows that the other party usually prefers to deal with a known rather than an unknown. Unless the relationships between CNCC and external bodies has actually broken down - and I have seen no evidence to suggest that might be the case - then surely it is better to push for reform from within.
Interestingly, as well as the candidacy of Ian Peachey, announced on here, the Agenda has:
So presumably there will be a three-way election for Secretary?
Bottlebank
New member
Personally I'd much sooner see a clear statement now from Les and Glenn, saying they've listened, they've taken on board many of the points raised and will work to represent DIM's, be more open, will respond to reasonable queries quickly and honestly and will bring about change in the access procedures rather than to try and help get them replaced. I don't know either of them, I do know they've done a lot of good work in the past and I'm very sorry if they're upset by all of this but they represent us and need to start listening.
Hopefully publishing the draft agenda is an early sign of progress!
graham said:stu said:And from the other end of the telescope...
History shows that the other party usually prefers to deal with a known rather than an unknown. Unless the relationships between CNCC and external bodies has actually broken down - and I have seen no evidence to suggest that might be the case - then surely it is better to push for reform from within.
Interestingly, as well as the candidacy of Ian Peachey, announced on here, the Agenda has:
So presumably there will be a three-way election for Secretary?
The plot thickens. The Secretary of Elysium Underground Group is Les Sykes. (Ref CNCC Minutes)
Robert Scott
Member
Democracy in the CNCC - brilliant idea.
One thing that I've noticed is that the member clubs of CNCC have differing sizes.
Yet each member club that bothers to attend a CNCC meeting appears to have the same voting rights, namely 1.
The Earby appears to have 35 members, whereas the Bradford has about 150+ and the South Wales has 300+ members.
Perhaps voting on the basis of 1 vote for each BCA caving member + 1/3 for each BCA non-caving member might be more more equitable?
One thing that I've noticed is that the member clubs of CNCC have differing sizes.
Yet each member club that bothers to attend a CNCC meeting appears to have the same voting rights, namely 1.
The Earby appears to have 35 members, whereas the Bradford has about 150+ and the South Wales has 300+ members.
Perhaps voting on the basis of 1 vote for each BCA caving member + 1/3 for each BCA non-caving member might be more more equitable?
richardg
Active member
Robert Scott does definitely seem to have a point there.
What do you think... Les, Ian and Matt, if we are to consider each of your agendas for change as you put yourselves forward for the position of CNCC secretary...
Thank you each for your passion for Northern caving.
Especially Les who does such a monumental amount of work on our behalf as presently residing secretary of the CNCC
Richard
What do you think... Les, Ian and Matt, if we are to consider each of your agendas for change as you put yourselves forward for the position of CNCC secretary...
Thank you each for your passion for Northern caving.
Especially Les who does such a monumental amount of work on our behalf as presently residing secretary of the CNCC
Richard
Stu
Active member
darren said:
Much better that all club members of CNCC member clubs have a vote to put forward a single "club" vote, to their CNCC rep. As it stands it would be very easy for a club member to be voted in as CNCC rep for a club, for them to vote through on proposals that favour that rep's personal opinion, or on a proposal that some how favours them e.g. secret permits for diggers!
Hammy said:graham said:stu said:And from the other end of the telescope...
History shows that the other party usually prefers to deal with a known rather than an unknown. Unless the relationships between CNCC and external bodies has actually broken down - and I have seen no evidence to suggest that might be the case - then surely it is better to push for reform from within.
Interestingly, as well as the candidacy of Ian Peachey, announced on here, the Agenda has:
So presumably there will be a three-way election for Secretary?
The plot thickens. The Secretary of Elysium Underground Group is Les Sykes. (Ref CNCC Minutes)
Yes, and DHSS is the club of the current CNCC Chairman, Roy Holmes.
Could it be that the ruling junta have already accepted that their days in power are numbered and are desperately trying to install a puppet regime to maintain the status quo in all but name?
Smiley Alan
New member
could be .
Cavematt
Well-known member
Dear NigR
Thanks for your comments.
For all those reading this thread, please look at the other thread (about the CNCC AGM, if you haven't already) in which I have stated what I would be standing for as CNCC Secretary, and the changes I would like to see. These proposed changes have been formulated independently, based on my own personal beliefs and after spending a couple of years attending meetings and seeing first hand what matters need to be addressed. Hopefully these will clarify that referring to me as a potential puppet of the current committee is incorrect; however, I appreciate that you have every right to present this important view for others to take into consideration, particularly as others are also standing for the position.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Matt
Thanks for your comments.
For all those reading this thread, please look at the other thread (about the CNCC AGM, if you haven't already) in which I have stated what I would be standing for as CNCC Secretary, and the changes I would like to see. These proposed changes have been formulated independently, based on my own personal beliefs and after spending a couple of years attending meetings and seeing first hand what matters need to be addressed. Hopefully these will clarify that referring to me as a potential puppet of the current committee is incorrect; however, I appreciate that you have every right to present this important view for others to take into consideration, particularly as others are also standing for the position.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Matt
Pitlamp
Well-known member
NigR said:Hammy said:graham said:stu said:And from the other end of the telescope...
History shows that the other party usually prefers to deal with a known rather than an unknown. Unless the relationships between CNCC and external bodies has actually broken down - and I have seen no evidence to suggest that might be the case - then surely it is better to push for reform from within.
Interestingly, as well as the candidacy of Ian Peachey, announced on here, the Agenda has:
So presumably there will be a three-way election for Secretary?
The plot thickens. The Secretary of Elysium Underground Group is Les Sykes. (Ref CNCC Minutes)
Yes, and DHSS is the club of the current CNCC Chairman, Roy Holmes.
Could it be that the ruling junta have already accepted that their days in power are numbered and are desperately trying to install a puppet regime to maintain the status quo in all but name?
Regarding your last comment above NigR; I've nothing to do with the CNCC but I do cave regularly in the Dales, I've occasionally interfaced with its officers - and I'm closer to the Dales scene (I think) that you. I just wanted to say that, from my own perspective, I've honestly never noticed any evidence of what you seem to be suggesting.
Cavematt said:
Yes, I do have a couple of further questions for you.
Firstly, I would like to know when you first made the decision to stand for the position of CNCC Secretary. To be specific, was it before or after Ian P announced on this forum that he would be standing?
Secondly, I am somewhat confused as to whether the current Secretary will be putting himself up for re-election. Another poster (as can be seen above) has assumed that he is and that there will be a three-way election but I can find no evidence for this. So, quite simply, do you know if Les Sykes will indeed be standing again as Secretary?
Thanks.
Cavematt
Well-known member
A couple of quick replies:
My decision to stand as secretary was made before I knew of anyone else standing. For the record I think it's great that there will be at least two people standing as this avoids the risk of it being a one-choice election.
Regarding whether Les will stand, I have no idea... I would suggest sending him an Email to ask.
My decision to stand as secretary was made before I knew of anyone else standing. For the record I think it's great that there will be at least two people standing as this avoids the risk of it being a one-choice election.
Regarding whether Les will stand, I have no idea... I would suggest sending him an Email to ask.
