Observations on the CNCC AGM

[Andyj23UK]

The other issue about clubs like SUSS becoming full members of CNCC (in addition to the North/south divide) was that they can only be affiliated to one regional council (SUSS are in DCA).

the YSS are members of the CNCC , DCA and CCC

the Wessex are in the CSCC , DCA and  CCC

so there is certainly no ban on participating in multiple regional councils

 

[bograt]

As Damien has said, the Regional Councils set their own membership rules, I think CNCC is the only one to apply boundary restrictions, similarly, I believe DCA is the only one to have individual membership (apart from national bodies, BCA, BCRA, etc.)

 

[graham]

As Damien has said, the Regional Councils set their own membership rules, I think CNCC is the only one to apply boundary restrictions, similarly, I believe DCA is the only one to have individual membership (apart from national bodies, BCA, BCRA, etc.)

IIRC DCUC also has individual membership.

 

[JasonC]

But just to add more grist to the mill surely the "North of England" is the part of the county north of the Midlands. ...

Maybe, but there's no E in CNCC - it's just Northern Caving Clubs.  So any club in the Northern hemisphere is eligible, surely ?

 

[Simon Wilson]

Does anybody know anything about St Helens Caving Club?

Does anybody know anything about Northumbria Caving Club? They are another 'club' that got elected onto the CNCC committee at the AGM.

 

[NigR]

Is St Helens Caving Club on the committee?

 

[badger]

be interesting to know how many members these clubs have, and if there constitution state that they need x amount for a quorum, (hope that makes sense and spelt correctly)

 

[Jon]

When Matt pushes through CNCC membership for DIMs we'll be able to ditch all this club snobbery

 

[Pitlamp]

When Matt pushes through CNCC membership for DIMs we'll be able to ditch all this club snobbery

? ? ?

 

[Simon Wilson]

If DIM membership is agreed it will associate membership like BCA member clubs and they will not be eligible for election to the committee. Unlike a full member 'club' with any number of members.

Does anybody know anything about Lancashire Underground Group? That looks like another flag of convenience.

 

[Cavematt]

Hi Jon

I would like to clarify my position here for others reading this thread.

I have stated that I personally wish to see DIMs somehow represented by the CNCC, including on the committee (although to achieve this would require a constitutional amendment). I have also stated that I sway towards favouring permits for DIMs in principal (although there may be wording issues in access agreements that would need to be addressed first). I most certainly would like this to be revisited and debated by The Committee.

Please note though, that I am one person within the CNCC. I can (and will) advise and make recommendations to The Committee, and full member clubs voting at a general meeting. I can also work to ensure that fair systems exist to consult the caving community on these matters to gather balanced views from all sides of the debate, and provide data on the wider opinion of cavers.

However I am not able to, and would not want to simply 'push things through'

Remember, it is failing to consult and engage with the wider caving community that has caused so much upset in the past, and to do so again (even if the standpoint was reversed) would be inappropriate.

Cheers

Matt

 

[Pitlamp]

In case it helps (Simon) Lancashire Underground Group is a club name I've come across from time to time over quite a number of years. I don't live in Lancashire (so I'd not necessarily expect to have met its members) but, as far as I know, it's legitimate.

 

[Simon Wilson]

In case it helps (Simon) Lancashire Underground Group is a club name I've come across from time to time over quite a number of years. I don't live in Lancashire (so I'd not necessarily expect to have met its members) but, as far as I know, it's legitimate.

Thank you John, I've also come across LUG from time to time over quite a number of years. They have been represented variously by Les Sykes and Glenn Jones so we can assume they have at least three members. 'Legitimate' is a word, so is 'dodgy'.

 

[Bob Mehew]

My notes of the meeting indicated only one club sought full membership status, namely York Caving Club.  A few members were present at the meeting and their rep, (who I think was the new Secretary Matt) indicated that they were a group of cavers who had started caving at York Uni CC and wished to remain caving in York.

Three new (to the committee) clubs were elected on to the committee.  They were ULSA, Northern Boggarts & Over and Under in place of CNCC Tech Group, DHSS & Elysium who withdrew their nominations (so as to avoid a vote for 14 out of 17).  At first Northern Boggarts were referred to as Northern Caving Club according to my notes but this was subsequently corrected.  And to anticipate a request, the names of the other elected clubs according to my notes were Bradford PC, Burnley CC, Craven PC, Earby PC, Gritstone, LUG, Northern Speleo (? correct), Red Rose, White Rose, YRC and YSS.  In addition, the GSG were present and voting. 

Other names mentioned but not present were St Helens CC and Hull Uni SS, so there is a starter for the full membership list of CNCC.

 

[Bob Mehew]

I have stated that I personally wish to see DIMs somehow represented by the CNCC, including on the committee (although to achieve this would require a constitutional amendment). I have also stated that I sway towards favouring permits for DIMs in principal (although there may be wording issues in access agreements that would need to be addressed first). I most certainly would like this to be revisited and debated by The Committee.

[snip]

Please note though, that I am one person within the CNCC. I can (and will) advise and make recommendations to The Committee, and full member clubs voting at a general meeting. I can also work to ensure that fair systems exist to consult the caving community on these matters to gather balanced views from all sides of the debate, and provide data on the wider opinion of cavers.

If I may be so bold to suggest (and I find I am not the first to do so) DIMs of BCA could gain access to permits simply by CNCC treating BCA as a club.  There is a mammoth practical challenge on monitoring the permit application process.  But BCA should be able to set up a membership only page behind which is an application form for a permit which is then sent direct to the relevant meets secretary.  It is then but a small extension to also include CIMs who could be linked to their clubs.  I accept such applications would not be on letter headed note paper but surely that should be fairly simple to negotiate with land owners (along with other minor problems which will no doubt be discovered as the idea is fleshed out)? 

In addition it should be possible to get an online diary displayed on existing bookings to help.  I assume Meet Secretaries can cope with such a facility.  (And if they don't have a PC and internet connection, well CNCC has sizable assets and can afford to supply them.)

Changing the constitution to get individuals onto the committee can wait.

But as Matt says, he has only one vote on the Committee.  What worries me is the attitude of large clubs to such an idea or indeed other ideas changing CNCC out of its 1960s mold.  Perhaps cavers reading this who are members of such club could lobby them to become 'liberal in their old age'?  Which is why I would recommend all 'northern geographically based' clubs to seek election to full membership status.

 

[martinm]

If I may be so bold to suggest (and I find I am not the first to do so) DIMs of BCA could gain access to permits simply by CNCC treating BCA as a club.  There is a mammoth practical challenge on monitoring the permit application process.  But BCA should be able to set up a membership only page behind which is an application form for a permit which is then sent direct to the relevant meets secretary.  It is then but a small extension to also include CIMs who could be linked to their clubs.  I accept such applications would not be on letter headed note paper but surely that should be fairly simple to negotiate with land owners (along with other minor problems which will no doubt be discovered as the idea is fleshed out)? 

In addition it should be possible to get an online diary displayed on existing bookings to help.  I assume Meet Secretaries can cope with such a facility.  (And if they don't have a PC and internet connection, well CNCC has sizable assets and can afford to supply them.)

Changing the constitution to get individuals onto the committee can wait.

I think this is an excellent suggestion! 

 

[Bottlebank]

If I may be so bold to suggest (and I find I am not the first to do so) DIMs of BCA could gain access to permits simply by CNCC treating BCA as a club.  There is a mammoth practical challenge on monitoring the permit application process.  But BCA should be able to set up a membership only page behind which is an application form for a permit which is then sent direct to the relevant meets secretary.  It is then but a small extension to also include CIMs who could be linked to their clubs.  I accept such applications would not be on letter headed note paper but surely that should be fairly simple to negotiate with land owners (along with other minor problems which will no doubt be discovered as the idea is fleshed out)? 

In addition it should be possible to get an online diary displayed on existing bookings to help.  I assume Meet Secretaries can cope with such a facility.  (And if they don't have a PC and internet connection, well CNCC has sizable assets and can afford to supply them.)

Changing the constitution to get individuals onto the committee can wait.

Excellent idea, surely all it would require is voting the BCA in as a full member, after all, as an association it is already a club?

 

[graham]

Excellent idea, surely all it would require is voting the BCA in as a full member, after all, as an association it is already a club?

But it's not based in the north of Britain is it.

 

[Bottlebank]

I thought it was based in Derbyshire? Close enough for me

 

[Bob Mehew]

Associate membership of CNCC will do for a start and could be done at the next CNCC Committee meeting if the Committee so decided.