Parking in Ingleton

[kay]

Thanks for the warning Edd. 

As to whether the signs have been there ages - I noticed last time I was in Ingleton that there were more signs than before, ie they'd spread to the downhill side of the pub car park, and made it quite clear that both sides of the car park were for customers. Didn't see any reference to fines though.

 

[Alex]

why shouldn't the pub prevent non-customers from parking in its own car park?

Because they are not doing any harm and like me they probbably would return for a pint afterwards. I have never seen the car-park in a state that there was no room for customers. Anyway as there being fascist I will exercise my right to take my business else where and park on the road at the top of one way system.

It seems this adds to the yet more bloody bureaucracy and pointless powertrips, next thing they will be fining people without permits for caves. No doubt 52% (last time I looked) of you would think that was a good thing. I don't know why I keep an account on here its too depressing.

I am getting more disillusioned with modern life. Well at least so called "Modern Britain" God I hate this place, when I get money together I am moving to New Zealand and see if that is any better.

 

[martinr]

Yet more bloody bureaucracy and pointless powertrips, next thing they will be fining people without permits for caves. No doubt 52% (last time I looked) of you would think that was a good thing. I don't know why I keep an account on here its too depressing.

I am getting more disillusioned with modern life. Well at least so called "Modern Britain" God I hate this place, when I get money together I am moving to New Zealand and see if that is any better.

Best of luck when you get  to New Zealand......



http://caves.org.nz/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NZSS/Ethics]New Zealand Speleological Society


Cavers and Landowners:

We will seek and confirm specific approval in advance from the owner before entering a cave or crossing private property. On no account will we take access for granted.

We will respect the privacy of landowners.

We will respect restrictions placed on access to caves, for example, during the lambing season.

We will take care to avoid interference with crops or stock, and ensure that all gates are left as found.

We will, where a cave entrance has been blocked by the landowner to prevent injury to stock, re-block the entrance after use; and will liaise with the owner to erect a fence or some other mutually satisfactory means of protecting the entrance.

We will not conduct any substantial dig, or use explosives, on the surface or underground without the permission of the landowner (or administering authority). We will make secure or cover any hole, which has occurred as a result.

We will not be accompanied by a dog, or carry a firearm without the prior consent of the landowner (or administering authority).

We will always have available a current Society membership card to show the landowner (administering authority) when necessary.

 

[Alex]

Sound reasonable, at least those rules make sense and have a clear purpose, when it says advance it probbably just means knock on there door first. In any case it does not sound worse then here.

 

[shortscotsman]

They can't `fine you'.  There is something in the European convention on human rights on `no punishment without due process'.  Private companies can't fine you. 

They could have a `parking charge' but if you refused to pay they would have to take you to a civil court to recover the
charge. [unlikely...]

They can clamp you and charge a `release fee'.  However, they have to go through quite a few hoops to be licensed to do so.  Also,  you can choose not to use the `release service' and remove it yourself provided you don't damage it.
Old-style clamps used to be fairly easy to remove although some new style are trickier. 

If someone parks on your land, I wouldn't follow the suggestion of letting the tyres down. It's illegal and bloody stupid.
If someone drove off without noticing and skidded under an artic you could, and should, face  a manslaughter charge.

I checked this pretty carefully a few years ago after have a bit of a confrontation with some clampers whilst I was taking a clamp off.  Things may have changed.. The situation is very different with clamping on the public roads and by DVLA
whose clamps you can't legally remove.

 

[graham]

If someone parks on your land, I wouldn't follow the suggestion of letting the tyres down. It's illegal and bloody stupid.
If someone drove off without noticing and skidded under an artic you could, and should, face  a manslaughter charge.

Nah, they'd notice 'cos you leave a note telling 'em & that's glued to their windscreen.

Still no damage done to the car but splendid inconvenience.

 

[shortscotsman]

I think it would be better just to leave the inconvenient note and not tamper with their tyres. 

Nah, they'd notice 'cos you leave a note telling 'em & that's glued to their windscreen.

Still no damage done to the car but splendid inconvenience.

 

[graham]

You do that then. 

 

[speleotel]

That is , possibly, a great deal of beer and meals not going to be consumed by the caving population in that part of Ingleton then?

Such a pity when cavers are such a regular, all year, visiting trade to such a small commercial centre. Also a pity as the pub did appear to be making a great deal of effort when we last ate and drank there to ensure that our meal for 8 was satisfactory;  8 +  meals , beer + soft drinks adds up to tidy amount over a couple of hours from just one group.  But there are a lot of other pubs who do value our trade.

Like a previous posting on this thread I have not had problems parking there before; there has always been space. I assume it must also cost the business quite a bit to have a clamping service? So even more lost of profit for the pub.

Has anyone ever calculated how much revenue the presence of  cavers brings to Ingleton businesses on a regular basis? I suspect it adds up to a fair amount.

 

[ChrisJC]

I am getting more disillusioned with modern life. Well at least so called "Modern Britain" God I hate this place, when I get money together I am moving to New Zealand and see if that is any better.

Good riddance.

Wave to all the Kiwi's coming the other way with exactly the same disillusionment about NZ.......

You could go to Aus en-route and see how they are getting on as well.

Chris.

 

[Les W]

Have a look at this website concerning Private Parking Companies

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/private.htm

They do not have any basis in law to issue "penalties" only to attempt to claim "fair compensation" for losses.
If you ignore them they will go away. Do not pay them anything.

 

[ianball11]

I think that the walkers probably bring in more as a pub lunch seems to be a staple part of a walkers day in Ingleton whereas as tea and a breakfast from the cafes seems more caver choice.

Although 8 person meal is a hefty chunk of change no doubt. 

Ian B.

 

[khakipuce]

Has anyone ever calculated how much revenue the presence of  cavers brings to Ingleton businesses on a regular basis? I suspect it adds up to a fair amount.

Depends how many skips are around at the time, assume 3 in the village and assume they cost ?120 per skip. Cavers will probably remove about 10% of the skip's content so 3x?12 = ?36 worth of extra skip space.

 

[Alex]

Out entire club even stayed there one night a couple of years back, so factor that in as potential revenue that will be lost.

 

[freefall]

The company in question is TPS Parking Solutions..

The ticket says "TPS Parking Solutions LTD reserves the right to seek the registered keeper details from the DVLA. Your details may be passed to a third party for collection of unpaid parking charge notice fees."

Anyone have any idea about the actual legals involved? CAN they go to the DVLA?

 

[dunc]

Anyone have any idea about the actual legals involved? CAN they go to the DVLA?

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/data/parking.aspx

 

[Les W]

The company in question is TPS Parking Solutions..

The ticket says "TPS Parking Solutions LTD reserves the right to seek the registered keeper details from the DVLA. Your details may be passed to a third party for collection of unpaid parking charge notice fees."

Anyone have any idea about the actual legals involved? CAN they go to the DVLA?

They can go to DVLA if they pay a fee. This only tells them who the registered keeper is, not who was driving. Parking in contravention of the rules in a private carpark is considered a civil matter as a breach of contract (implied). They can only go after the driver not the registered keeper as it is the driver that entered an implied contract with them.

There is lots of advice on the web concerning private parking companies, they have absolutly no autyhority in UK law to impose penalties or fines. They can only seek reasonable compensation due to breach of contract. Don't reply to them and ignore any correspondence. Apart from the link I already gave do a search on private parking companies, there is lots of good advice. Don't pay (accepting the contract), don't correspond (they think you are possibly going to pay so will continue the threats for non payment) and don't tell them who was driving. In short ignore them completely and they will go away.

P.S. There is a fee to request the keeper details from DVLA and they are unlikely to even do that if they don't think you will be suckered in.
The whole PPC thing is an unregulated borderline illegal scam and youy should not help them by voluntarily and unnecessarily  giving them your money.

 

[Cavegod]

wise words indeed we should alll have a nass park your car at the pub protest!

 

[braveduck]

Ignore mail from these people at your peril.
If you do not  play ball with these people, they sell the debt.
Next news you will have a private bailf at your door.
Pay up or they remove goods to the value of the debt.Pointless being violent the law is on their side.
Some bad advice being given out here.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I'm not so sure. What is the "debt"? A demand that has dubious validity in law? It's not like refusing to pay council tax, or failing to pay a legally imposed fine, or defaulting on mortgage payments. I am in "debt" only when I don't pay for some service or similar that I have asked for, or a payment that it is my duty as a citizen to pay. So I'm not sure what "debt" is going to be passed on. Sounds like a load of hot air and bluster to me. A bit like "trespassers will be prosecuted" signs.