Peak Dale Tunnel

[Mark]

Some great pics on Facebook its not going to go away.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Underground-Explorers-C9C/363720277111922

 

[NewStuff]

As for demanding (inferring, "suggesting", phrase it how you want), people shouldn't publish pictures they have taken, I would be quite inclined to tell you to go forth and fornicate were I in the photographers shoes. I know quite a number of others will as well. I may not put a name or location with them, but should I take pictures I deem worthy or of interest to others, then publish them I damn well will.

There are quite a few rather fascinating copyright issues surrounding images taken of other people and other people's property. I am not going to go into them here, as they are rather complex and I am certainly no expert in the field. You may find, however, that publication of images without permission may lead you down all sorts of alleyways that you'd rather not explore without quite deep pockets.

I missed this little dig first time around...

For commercial gain, you have a point, that would be utterly stupid, and you would have a chance of getting a judgement against you in a courtroom, the size of which depends on how much you have made from the sale of the pictures/rights. Good luck for non-commercial, personal use however, as it's a very different kettle of fish. Having gotten hundreds of Model releases signed when I had a studio, and having had *many* conversations with policemen (including being "section forty-foured" a number of times), rest assured that I may know more than a little bit about what I can, and cannot do, regarding publishing a picture. I can assure you that it is, *at best* a civil tort, and not one worth pursuing against someone not making a single penny off the publication.

 

[graham]

I missed this little dig first time around...

Can't resist it, can you.  : That was not a dig, it was a comment about a genuine aspect of the issue that had not been made elsewhere. But since you wish to pursue it I'll make a couple of further points: 1. Yes a commercial publication is far more likely to be hit by a suit than another, but I never said it was anything other than a civil case. 2. I do know of many sites, including cave sites where I have been expressly forbidden to take photos and were I to share around some that I do have I'd get both me and the person that granted me access in deep mire with their employers. I'll give you an example, at Lascaux far from being able to photograph inside the cave (never thought we'd have been allowed that anyway) I was not even given permission to photograph the gate from the outside. You cannot get a decent (but legal) shot of it from outside the fence. 3. Closer to the case in point, if someone with the responsibility for the site associated the damage (of which we have been told) with the appearance of the photos, was not able to prove a link with the former but clearly could the latter - and had an organisation that wished to make a public point behind them - then you might, possibly, win the case, but it'd cost you a lot along the way and you never can tell whether you'll be awarded your costs even if you win ...

 

[T pot 2]

19th October 1974
I was shown a tunnel at peak dale quarry opposite the $%?*&*^ "+*&^ today by steans, ziek and thomson. It was possible to walk through to daylight at the other end if you stayed tight to the right had wall to avoid the hundreds if not thousands of straws that came from the roof and nearly touched the floor. Very pretty awsome sight. Went trundling big rocks off the top of another disused quarry up the road and got ejected by an irate quarry worker. the went to a pub at the bottom of the hill for a pint where we were told by the landlord that the quarry with the tunnel was used during the war to store mustard gas shells and that we shouldn't be playing around in there.


9th November 1974
Went back to the tunnel with watson today to photograph the tunnel with the straws. Didn't get any pictures though because someone had trashed the place after our last visit and there were no straws to be seen apart from the debris on the floor. We walked through to day light and looked at the rails on the floor. Went to buxton on the bus and then to the wanted for beer and met up with the others and isan.

 

[NewStuff]

1. Yes a commercial publication is far more likely to be hit by a suit than another, but I never said it was anything other than a civil case.

Good. It would be rather stupid to do so.

2. I do know of many sites, including cave sites where I have been expressly forbidden to take photos and were I to share around some that I do have I'd get both me and the person that granted me access in deep mire with their employers. I'll give you an example, at Lascaux far from being able to photograph inside the cave (never thought we'd have been allowed that anyway) I was not even given permission to photograph the gate from the outside. You cannot get a decent (but legal) shot of it from outside the fence.

What's that got with the price of fish? If someone has let me in somewhere on the QT, then it's bloody obvious that I wouldn't be publishing the pictures willy-nilly. That's just bloody rude. Even you are not that obtuse as to think I'm that much of a twat.

3. Closer to the case in point, if someone with the responsibility for the site associated the damage (of which we have been told) with the appearance of the photos, was not able to prove a link with the former but clearly could the latter - and had an organisation that wished to make a public point behind them - then you might, possibly, win the case, but it'd cost you a lot along the way and you never can tell whether you'll be awarded your costs even if you win ...

Unless the party bringing the case has irrefutable evidence of someone causing damage, they are probably on a losing bet. The fact that pictures appear does NOT mean the photographer caused the damage. It's quite clearly the case in this very thread. The "might win" is firmly on their side, and I've yet to hear of someone taking a speculative punt on something that risky.

 

[Roger W]

TP2,  do I understand correctly from your post - which I take to be an excerpt from your caving diary from long ago - that the formations in the tunnel were comprehensively trashed back in 1974 and that the straws shown in recent photographs have grown from nothing to their present size in the last 40 years?

That, of course, doesn't necessarily mean that if they get trashed again they will regrow again in another 40 years or so.

 

[droid]

Assuming the conditions that allowed the rapid formation (lime dump) still exists. Which it appears not to.....

 

[bograt]

Errr.... maybe this is exactly what the RGS is monitoring in there??

 

[graham]

? Last Edit: Today at 07:23:30 pm by Cap'n Chris, Reason: Following Report to Moderator, last paragraph redacted ?

That report did not come from me. I wonder what the paragraph said. 

 

[SJB]

This is only some 400m from my house.  I have heard about it and have no intention of going there (being more of an explorer than a collector) but I would certainly like to see some piccies. Anyone?

 

[bograt]

OFFS  This is an old railway tunnel, why keep bringing it up on a caving forum??

 

[Wayland Smith]

OFFS  This is an old railway tunnel, why keep bringing it up on a caving forum??

Because it is said that "you can not go in there"
It then becomes either a must see or a soapbox "you are reppressing my rights" campaign to some. 

 

[NewStuff]

OFFS  This is an old railway tunnel, why keep bringing it up on a caving forum??

So, by your logic, all talk about Mines & Quarries must also cease immediately then?  :tease:

 

[Antwan]

This is only some 400m from my house.  I have heard about it and have no intention of going there (being more of an explorer than a collector) but I would certainly like to see some piccies. Anyone?

I'll sort you out later tonight if no one else does first, pm me an email address.

*this is not an admission that I have or haven't been there been there.

 

[zomjon]

SJB, if you follow Mark's link to the Underground Explorers C9C (on facebook) site at the top of this page, there are a few pics of the tunnel, particularly early on the site's pages.

 

[Black Ole Bob]

I've heard the C9C will take you in, if you assist them with some of there other Black Opp's...

 

[langcliffe]

9th November 1974
Went back to the tunnel with watson today to photograph the tunnel with the straws. Didn't get any pictures though because someone had trashed the place after our last visit and there were no straws to be seen apart from the debris on the floor. We walked through to day light and looked at the rails on the floor. Went to buxton on the bus and then to the wanted for beer and met up with the others and isan.

Whilst sorting through the John Wooley photograph collection this afternoon, I came across a packet of black and white negatives labelled "Formation Studies, Peak Dale Tunnel Warren, January 1967", which may be photographs of the formations seen by T pot 2 before they were smashed.

 

[DAN]

I have some very good pics of this place, it was me who alerted the DCA that it might need a gate. I think it was also me who found the place. It is indeed very fragile and I believe it is in everyone's best interest if this place remains a mystery. Paul Deakin took the pics with Paz Vale and myself and in taking the pictures damage was done. This is an unbelievably fragile place and needs to be kept locked and out of the public eye.

Dan