Pierre's Pot

[cap n chris]

WTF is the point of carving an arrow in moonmilk when you're only 5m from the entrance? - here's a photo of the work done by a twat:

If anyone sees someone damaging moonmilk please punch them with my blessings. BTW the arrow is in the roof, 2m downslope of the junction immediately inside PP. It points uphill, towards daylight - it obviously serves an important purpose (if you're as thick as sh*t).

 

[cap n chris]

here's a photo of the work done by a twat:

.... hmm, I think I meant that the carving was done by a twat, not that the photo was taken by a twat (although there may be some truth to this slip-up)!

 

[Stupot]

I fail to see any sence what so ever in carving an arrow, and although i am all up for leaving markers make them temporay, but this is just distructive vandalism, and i would say that it was either done by a non caver or one with little respect for their surroundings.

Very dissapointing

Stu.

 

[angelmaz11]

Talking about marks... I was recently in Bar Pot going towards Gaping Ghyll, much to my disappointment we found LOTS of markings of arrows and other writing pointing u to the right directions... what ever happend to finding ur own way there?? That's what I love about caving.

Marion

PS The waterfall was amazing!

 

[paul]

Talking about marks... I was recently in Bar Pot going towards Gaping Ghyll, much to my disappointment we found LOTS of markings of arrows and other writing pointing u to the right directions... what ever happend to finding ur own way there?? That's what I love about caving.

Marion

PS The waterfall was amazing!

That's nothing - even though covered with arrows and marks as you said - plus hardly being complicated route finding, I was on a trip to the Main Chamber from Bar Pot some time ago and some pillocks had left those flourescent glo-sticks marking the route beginning with one at the foot of the rope on the Big Pitch!

We were the only ones in Bar Pot at the time (unless anybody else had fre-climbed their way in!) as the pitches weren't yet rigged so they must have been left the day before (this was on a Sunday). We collected them on the way out for disposal. Even if somebody felt a need for the markers, they could have at least collected them on the way out.

A bunch of us had a quick trip in Wapping Mine/Cumberland Cavern (in Matlock Bath) over the New Year break and there are actuallly routes marked by somebody leaving long lengths of string!

 

[cap n chris]

We were the only ones in Bar Pot at the time (unless anybody else had fre-climbed their way in!) as the pitches weren't yet rigged so they must have been left the day before (this was on a Sunday). We collected them on the way out for disposal. Even if somebody felt a need for the markers, they could have at least collected them on the way out.

... unless they were left behind by a bunch of adventurous women (with brand new caving and climbing gear) doing a pull through trip who ended up being eaten by sightless monsters who dwell in the further reaches of GG.

 

[graham]

We were the only ones in Bar Pot at the time (unless anybody else had fre-climbed their way in!) as the pitches weren't yet rigged so they must have been left the day before (this was on a Sunday). We collected them on the way out for disposal. Even if somebody felt a need for the markers, they could have at least collected them on the way out.

... unless they were left behind by a bunch of adventurous women (with brand new caving and climbing gear) doing a pull through trip who ended up being eaten by sightless monsters who dwell in the further reaches of GG.

I think you need to keep well away from the cinema ...

 

[Slug]

Have You been at the Mushroons Chris?












Or the Butcombe?

 

[susie]

Talking about marks... I was recently in Bar Pot going towards Gaping Ghyll, much to my disappointment we found LOTS of markings of arrows and other writing pointing u to the right directions... what ever happend to finding ur own way there??

I was down there with my grand-daughter today, and we found the same - and not just at the junctions. Some arrows must have been inscribed in order to provide confidence as they were between junctions where it was impossibly for even the most incompetent to go astray.

We spent about 30 minutes dismantling walls from the entrances to the passages that were NOT on the Bar Bot - Gaping Gill route, and trying to disguise the freshly scratched arrows with mud. We also brought out several glo-sticks as well as a large polythene bag full of rubbish out of Amphibian Passage.

At T-Junction someone had recently scratched HECKMONDWHITE on the wall, which may be a clue as to the origin of the vandals...

 

[whitelackington]

I have never been down the horrible looking narrow slot to the streamway in Pierres pot but I would like to cos I like streamways.
How fucking skinny do you have to be?

 

[Les W]

Not that skinny

I have done it with a 46" chest BUT you do need a high pain threshold, no clothes on and a thin man to push you out after.

A worthwile trip and you haven't lived until you've seen the Hanging Gardens

 

[Roger W]

you do need... no clothes on...

Sounds chilly. :?

Could be embarrassing...

 

[whitelackington]

LES, does it matter what shape the chest is, I don't mean tits.
If your chest is deep, does that make it harder?

 

[Les W]

Yes. If you are barrel chested give up now. The 1st squeeze is a vertical slot about 3m deep which you can pass by breathing out and wriggling, gravity is your friend :shock: The tight bit is right at the top and there are some ledges below.
Beyond this is the 2nd squeeze. This is actually tighter than the first, but also easier, as you can sit down into it and push down off the roof to pass it. If you have got this far then it is plain sailing as the 3rd squeeze isn't too bad (If you can find it!! If you are using Mendip Underground for your route description the route to the 3rd squeeze and on to the Hanging Gardens appears to have been omited for some reason or other :wink:

It is good to get a description as to where the way on is as I have sat right next to it without seeing it!!

The cave is worth the effort though. The stream is good (though short) and I believe the downstream sump is as yet undived to a conclusion (How many open leads are there on Mendip?).

Upstream is well sculptured with some fine phreatic arches until the stream joins from the left. Don't bother with this unless you are a masochist, Pete Moody dived through a narrow rift to regain air space here only to find he was just further along the rift and still in vocal contact with his party, the way on was too small

The route to the Hanging Gardens is a well kept secret, you won't find formations like these anywhere in Burrington, If you want more info then pm me (if you are going to get this far!)

The way out is straight forward, sit up into the 2nd squeeze and push up with your legs whilst wriggling to get out. The 1st squeeze is the problem, I have to stand on the shoulders of a strong but thin person and breath out and wriggle whilst they do the pushing.
The thin person needs to be able to exit on their own (obviously).

 

[Roger W]

Back to the origins of this thread...

It did occur to me that some of the people who go into caves - and maybe some of those who browse this forum - might not know what moonmilk is.

I'm sure everyone who has ever been in a show cave must know what stalactites and stalagmites are , but I'm also fairly sure that a lot of people will not know what some of the less well-known speleothems are, or how they are formed.

If people realised how fragile and irreplaceable some cave formations are, they might treat them with a little more respect. :?

Maybe there is a place for the explanation of some of them here?

I found this site about moonmilk:

http://karst.planetresources.net/forms_moonmilk.htm

http://www.nps.gov/crla/notes/vol26h.htm is also interesting.

These two seem to suggest that moonmilk might still be forming in some caves, and be able to self-repair damaged areas. But

http://jsedres.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/5/1171

seems to be saying that - in the Italian Alps at least - most moonmilk is fossil.

Can anyone add any more information about the stuff in Mendip and other parts of UK?

 

[graham]

...The stream is good (though short) and I believe the downstream sump is as yet undived to a conclusion ...

I believe the good Mr Moody dived it & surprise, surprise it's choked.

 

[Roger W]

If people realised how fragile and irreplaceable some cave formations are, they might treat them with a little more respect. :?

Sorry, folks - definitely wishful thinking there!

Just read Cap'n Chris's comments in t'other thread about the so-thoughtful person who peed in the puddle in Swildon's...

I guess some people just don't think - or care - at all about the outcome of their actions.

 

[cap n chris]

Roger!, they didn't pee in a puddle. They peed in the middle of the passage, and a puddle was created by their urine ponding in a low spot. This turns rancid and makes you dry heave/vomit if you get a whiff. Anyone caught pissing in a dry cave should be forced to sit in their urine to absorb it into their clothing and be told to "piss off out of this cave" :wink:

I'm serious. If anyone must take a piss in a cave do so in a streamway not in a dryer section.

 

[Roger W]

. If anyone must take a piss in a cave do so in a streamway not in a dryer section.

Point well understood Cap'n - pee in a dry, bacteria-free cave environment must get pretty iffy.

But how does your advice to find a streamway tie in with situations where the water in the cave ends up as someone's water supply? I think there have been a few comments on this forum about problems of landowners worrying about contamination of their water supply.

Serious comments invited from all interested parties - should peeing in caves be permitted at all? I know that on a longish trip there are bound to be some problems with Butcombe's or Theakston's needing to be recycled - but what is the best way of dealing with the problem?

 

[Peter Burgess]

I thought that urine was effectively sterile, and its obnoxious because it stinks. Are you going to stop all the farm and wild animals crapping and urinating in the fields which then gets washed into the caves?

Urinating and evacuating one's bowels is not the sole preserve of the human race.

Keeping water supply clean and fresh is a good idea though. Any water that is supposed to be 'pure' off the hills and all that, has the chance that at some time either a person or an animal has added something to it.