cap n chris
Well-known member
You can't apply a price per hectare as a proportionate fraction for determining the cost of purchasing miniscule packets of land containing cave entrances. Nice idea, but a non-reality.
Potential forest sell off
- Thread starter bagpuss
- Start date
AndyF
New member
A good proportion of FC property is designated "Access Land", though I don't know how many potentially affected entrances are on those areas.
Of course if "access land" gave access to caves on that land, this would be a non-issue.
Perhaps those who argued so hard against access land giving rights to enter caves may get a reason to change their views
Of course if "access land" gave access to caves on that land, this would be a non-issue.
Perhaps those who argued so hard against access land giving rights to enter caves may get a reason to change their views
gus horsley
New member
AndyF said:A good proportion of FC property is designated "Access Land", though I don't know how many potentially affected entrances are on those areas.
Of course if "access land" gave access to caves on that land, this would be a non-issue.
Perhaps those who argued so hard against access land giving rights to enter caves may get a reason to change their views
The designation of "Access Land" can be double-edged. In the 1980's the FC took over a large area of forestry in North Wales and promptly denied access to several mines because they had a duty of care to make sure the public didn't go into anything that could be deemed dangerous.
cap n chris
Well-known member
A logical and unarguable consequence.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Haven't got a clue. Don't know anything about the history of the site. ???, probably, perhaps, I guess, mebbe. Impressive cave, though.
My comment was aimed at this scenario:
Piece of formerly private land with cave entrance.
Legislation allows anyone to now walk all over the land.
The cave has recognised numpty trap dangers about it.
Landowner indemnifies self against claims from numpties by physically prohibiting access to cave.
Happier landowner.
Unhappier caver, whose work is now cut out to conceive and create a suitable landowner-reassuring plan to try and gain access.
My comment was aimed at this scenario:
Piece of formerly private land with cave entrance.
Legislation allows anyone to now walk all over the land.
The cave has recognised numpty trap dangers about it.
Landowner indemnifies self against claims from numpties by physically prohibiting access to cave.
Happier landowner.
Unhappier caver, whose work is now cut out to conceive and create a suitable landowner-reassuring plan to try and gain access.
graham
New member
cap 'n chris said:
Thing is, we have lots of experience in creating these, in a variety of flavours which suit a variety of landowners in a variety of situations. Very few caves in the UK are wholly out of bounds to cavers, probably far fewer in overall terms than there are crags closed to climbers or rivers closed to canoeists.
nickwilliams
Well-known member
In answer to Jopo, the CROW act makes a specific distinction between natural and man-made hazards, and disapplies the Occupiers Liability Act for natural hazards. Thus, by making the land around Porth-Yr-Ogof open access, the landowner actually reduces their liability, whereas the FC cannot get the same benefit for mine shafts on their land because they are not natural features.
Nick.
Nick.
Rhys
Moderator
AndyF said:graham said:AndyF said:Well you can thank your Labour MP for there being a need for a sell-off....
Do bankers vote labour then? :-\
Don't fall for this !it was the bankers not us ...boo hoo" from labour.
Labour ran a defecit every year from 2002, increasing National Debt every year
Labour watched the massive bubble in consumer debt form, and did nothing
Labour disconnected interest rates from house inflation, causing the property bubble.
Labour set the regulation framework for banking
All this was before 2008. They were asleep at the wheel for a decade. The crash was invetitable.
Oh, and they also gave all the taxpayers money to save the same banks. Thanks.
They did it, they were in charge. Don't blame the Tories for the mopping up operation
Don't fall for this "It was Labour...boo hoo" from the Tories.
The poorly economy and deficit gives them the perfect excuse to push on with cutting and selling. It's their ideological aim.
On the forests, they're just starting back up where they left off (but were thwarted as far as FOD goes) when they were previously in power.
Rhys
AndyF
New member
Rhys said:
They don't need an "excuse", its a necessity...
A good thing too, there is no earthly reason for a government to run a forestry business and more than baking cakes or manufacturing cars... or running banks for that matter.
Forestry is not a national strategic industry, get it sold..
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
Might not be a good business move anyway, given that it's predominantly oak, and sudden oak death may well be coming in shortly.
Les W
Active member
RobinGriffiths said:
It appears that in the UK, sudden oak death is attacking Larch.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-12134772
Les W
Active member
AndyF said:A good thing too, there is no earthly reason for a government to run a forestry business and more than baking cakes or manufacturing cars... or running banks for that matter.
Forestry is not a national strategic industry, get it sold..
I am not opposed to the sell off however, as these are public lands, owned by us, any sell off must ensure a continuation of our rights.
Paths, be they public or permissive matter not one bit to us underground types. A fair portion of FoD is access land, which does give us a right to wander at will, but not much else! As far as the powers that be (in the caving world) are concerned open access to caves is not a good idea, so we have to continually try to (re)negotiate access at regular intervals and no doubt when this sale goes ahead this will be the case again.
bagpuss
Member
Should you wish to email your MP to protest - or to simply to add what conditions should be put in should the sell off go ahead they've made it pretty easy to do so here:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/MP-forests
There's a template if you want to use it, I look it out and wrote my own though.
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/MP-forests
There's a template if you want to use it, I look it out and wrote my own though.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
Looks like the government have been scared off - temporarily at least.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12428814
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12428814
