Proposal for BCA to officially declare caves non-smoking
- Thread starter cap n chris
- Start date
D
Dep
Guest
JB said:
hear hear.
It's stupid idea - with no merit other than to promote another pointless discussion with the usual deeply entrenched positions.
The majority of cavers don't smoke anyway - and of those that do, few smoke underground for many reasons discussed (ad nauseum) elsewhere. And the majority of those that do smoke underground (Goatchurch for example) are not regular cavers but casual visitors who would pay no attention.
What you are discussing is unenforcable legislation - a really stupid idea.
Also note that BCA has no mandate to make laws or regulations outside of its remit - making caves (which are not under their DIRECT ownership or control) non-smoking is definitely outside their remit.
As Wormster says:
There are many other topics of far greater importance to caving in the UK.
E
emgee
Guest
Hughie said:
whitelackington
New member
Surely, if God had wanted us to smoke,
he would have made us each with a chimney :
W
Walrus
Guest
And if he'd wanted us to ride bicycles he would have given us wheels!
W
Walrus
Guest
Apologies: Its a £200 maximum fine, not £1,500!! :-[
whitelackington
New member
If you mean what an owner will be fined
for allowing an employee to smoke on his premise, it is fifteen hundred quid.
for allowing an employee to smoke on his premise, it is fifteen hundred quid.
W
Walrus
Guest
Ok, clarifying myself!
"The £ penalties and fines for the smokefree offences set out in the Health Act 2006 are:
* Smoking in a smokefree premises or vehicle: a fixed penalty notice of £50 (discounted to £30 if paid within 15 days from the issue of a notice) or a fine by a court not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale (up to £200)
* Failure to display no smoking signs in smokefree premises and vehicles as required by the new law: a fixed penalty notice of £200 (discounted to £150 if paid within 15 days from the issue of a notice) or a fine by a court not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (up to £1000)
* Failing to prevent smoking in a smokefree premises or vehicle: a fine by a court not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale (up to £2500)"
"The £ penalties and fines for the smokefree offences set out in the Health Act 2006 are:
* Smoking in a smokefree premises or vehicle: a fixed penalty notice of £50 (discounted to £30 if paid within 15 days from the issue of a notice) or a fine by a court not exceeding level 1 on the standard scale (up to £200)
* Failure to display no smoking signs in smokefree premises and vehicles as required by the new law: a fixed penalty notice of £200 (discounted to £150 if paid within 15 days from the issue of a notice) or a fine by a court not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale (up to £1000)
* Failing to prevent smoking in a smokefree premises or vehicle: a fine by a court not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale (up to £2500)"
cap n chris
Well-known member
wormster said:
Schizophrenia?
cap n chris
Well-known member
Dep said:
The OT is about whether BCA should, once and for all - and in line with the forthcoming nationwide introduction of a smoking ban in a host of new sites) - declare caves no-smoking zones; so far smoking has only been mentioned in the Ethical Caving Code and as something which also has potential to disturb bats (contrary to WCPA1981); stating that smoking underground is a no-no is quite a separate topic from enforcing a ban. It would just be helpful to know whether or not smoking underground is to be challenged or whether people just have to
Yes, there may be more important things on the agenda (but catching rapists/murderers/kiddyfiddlers doesn't stop police from spending some time now and again handing out parking/speeding tickets) but the timing of this topic nationally is what makes it relevant to us, now, IMO.
cap n chris
Well-known member
whitelackington said:
Surely, if God had wanted us to smoke,
he would have made us each with a chimney :
If God had wanted us to smoke he would have allowed us to discover tobacco, manufacture and distribute cigarettes.
If God had wanted us to fly he would have given us the ingenuity to invent and manufacture aeroplanes.
If God had wanted us to spend our lives answering dumbass observations he would have allowed us to subscribe to UKCaving.com.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Maybe BCA should faff with it for similar reasons that the Government is faffing with it.
Les W
Active member
Whilst BCA *could* have a policy on smoking in caves, they have NO control over access. The various access agreements are either vested in clubs, regional councils, other access controlling bodies (clue in the name) and occasionally individuals.
Ownership of caves is likewise generally vested with individuals such as farmers and other land owners. BCA does not have ownership of any caves.
BCA has NO legal duty to get involved with a smoking ban in caves but could suggest an ethical/moral stance concerning smoking in caves.
The only possible statutory smoking ban within caves could be in those caves that are designated as bat roosts where EN/Natural England could potentially claim smoking was disturbing the bats.
BCA has a lot of more important issues to direct it's attention towards with its limited resources such as time, volunteers, etc. than a unenforceable and non legal smoking ban within caves. The most likely route towards a voluntary ban would be by peer pressure.
Ownership of caves is likewise generally vested with individuals such as farmers and other land owners. BCA does not have ownership of any caves.
BCA has NO legal duty to get involved with a smoking ban in caves but could suggest an ethical/moral stance concerning smoking in caves.
The only possible statutory smoking ban within caves could be in those caves that are designated as bat roosts where EN/Natural England could potentially claim smoking was disturbing the bats.
BCA has a lot of more important issues to direct it's attention towards with its limited resources such as time, volunteers, etc. than a unenforceable and non legal smoking ban within caves. The most likely route towards a voluntary ban would be by peer pressure.
damian said:
MendipCG banned smoking in our hut years ago.
We are assuming that the regs apply as we are a "members club" and as such are not exempt (I recall a fuss being made by "gentlemen's smoking clubs" in London, which are covered by the regs and will, therfore, have to ban smoking?! ).
Complying isn't onerous - an A5 sign at each entrance and remove any ashtrays....
What utter utter shite.
I cannot believe that there are 3 pages of crap trying to establish wether some here and or the BCA have the right/ability to ban smoking underground.
As if there is nothing else to do!
I think some people are taking themselves a little to seriously, the smoking debate has been done to death mny times before, now we have people trying to prove their point again. By any means possible...
Tedious to say the least
I cannot believe that there are 3 pages of crap trying to establish wether some here and or the BCA have the right/ability to ban smoking underground.
As if there is nothing else to do!
I think some people are taking themselves a little to seriously, the smoking debate has been done to death mny times before, now we have people trying to prove their point again. By any means possible...
Tedious to say the least
