Proposal for BCA to officially declare caves non-smoking

[cap n chris]

Novice caver to Experienced caver, possible future conservation scenario:

NC: So, since the no smoking ban in public enclosed spaces what's the score with people smoking in caves?

EX: Apparently no-one knows. There are ethical codes prohibiting it and in caves where there may be bats it is probably not allowed either and the majority of people don't like smoking and it can aggravate breathing problems for people but, strangely, the national and regional caving bodies are silent on the topic.

NC: Wouldn't it just be simpler to state that you either agree that you CAN or you CAN NOT smoke underground, and have people abide by it on a kind of gentleman's agreement basis?

EX: That would seem like an OK plan.

NC: So, what gives?

EX: Er.... 

 

[Jagman]

Ok I will make it easy :
I fully intend to smoke (with the exception of sensetive sites should I go to one) underground to my hearts content.
I'm quite happy doing it and my companions don't object, the miners who ocupied the places way before me did exactly the same. I feel no obligation to moderate my behavior, if some one should follow me in and object to tobacco smoke I wont make them stay in there.
There you go the perfect gentlemens agreement, you leave me be and I will leave you be, problem sorted

 

[cap n chris]

EX: ... oh yeah, I forgot. There are people who do whatever they like; you can't reason with them. They appear to be selfish and inconsiderate.

 

[Jagman]

EX: ... oh yeah, I forgot. There are people who do whatever they like; you can't reason with them. They appear to be selfish, inconsiderate and unthinking. 

I don't do caves but other than that you are absolutely right.
It means you cant dictate to me either, as much as you would obviously like to

 

[martinr]

Ok I will make it easy :
I fully intend to smoke ... underground to my hearts content.

Your heart may less content than you are.

http://www.quitsmokingsupport.com/heart.htm

 

[cap n chris]

I hope never to meet you, let alone waste my time trying to talk to you about anything. No, I guess that since there are people who will disregard stuff like this then it makes no odds whether a policy of no smoking in caves is recommended or not - there will probably always be people who will do as they please; however, this is no reason for other people to give up on theirs attempts to improve things for the rest of us. This topic just seems relevant and timely given the approach of a new national policy on smoking in all sorts of public spaces*. Perhaps you'd care to ignore that and see where it gets you with your "leave me be" philosophy. Please post up your findings.



* E.g. You won't be allowed to smoke in club huts; you can't smoke in the cafe when you have your cooked breakfast; you won't be able to smoke in the minibus on the way to the cave/mine or in the pub afterwards but there doesn't seem to be a definite stance on whether smoking underground is out of order. Surely there's an inconsistency here?

 

[Wolfart]

                                  PLEASE DO NOT SMOKE IN CAVES


Thats being polite for now

 

[Hughie]

....but there doesn't seem to be a definite stance on whether smoking underground is out of order. Surely there's an inconsistency here?

From what I've read, there is a definite stance. Smoking is to be banned in enclosed places. Surely caves would fall into this remit.

An example. On this farm, apparently, I can smoke in an open sided haybarn (golly - that's sensible), but not in a machinery shed next door to the haybarn, that is enclosed on three sides. Public access is irrelevant, as others may, during the course of their work, use that shed.

As everybody that regularly works here (with the exception of Anne) smokes, I strongly suspect the incoming legislation may well get flouted - on occasion. I will turn a blind eye and plead ignorant (in my best yokel voice, of course!). However, we'll put the relevant signs up and keep an eye open for the fag police.

 

[Hughie]

Accepting that I don't cave incredibly regularly at the mo (digging twice weekly), but I don't really recall seeing people smoke in caves. I also accept we did most of our caving outside of busy times, such as weekends. I can honestly say I've never seen anybody smoking on a caving trip.

I know I smoke (so maybe have a degree of bias), and personally don't smoke whilst caving, but I do think dropping a turd in a cave is way worse - and I've seen several of those.

 

[graham]

Smoker, obviously getting twitchy. 

Possibly except I don't give a damn and will continue to be anti-social, legally or otherwise :tease:

I can think of a number of restricted access caves in which you will not be welcome, but as you say you "don't do" caves that will not be an issue. Good.

However, it is unlikely to be as issue in mines for too long either, as your heart and lungs will give out, quite soon.

 

[cap n chris]

Smoking is to be banned in enclosed places. Surely caves would fall into this remit.

Some good comments, Hughie; it certainly would seem to make sense. Perhaps BCA/RCCs will consider the topic and comment upon it in due course.

 

[mak]

and so to bed said zebedee



Oh sorry thought someone had ressurected the story game

I agree with the W.T.F comments, Les stated the position quite well why keep discussing it?

 

[whitelackington]

and so to bed said zebedee



Oh sorry thought someone had ressurected the story game

I agree with the W.T.F comments, Les stated the position quite well why keep discussing it?

You are quite right Mak, it is not nice but hardly anyone these days smokes underground, why don't we chat about something important,
like when are Hunter's Hole and Rhino Rift going to be re-opened :-\

 

[anfieldman]

, why don't we chat about something important,
like when are Hunter's Hole and Rhino Rift going to be re-opened :-\

You want to talk about something important W/L ! 

 

[fi]

All huts will be covered by the ban and should be displaying the "No smoking" stickers.  One of my clubs has already investigated this as several members were rather upset about all of this - they're not allowed to smoke at home so go to the club specifically for that purpose.  Most clubs are probably also describable as a workplace as there are usually hut wardens and officials who although unpaid probably are considered the same as employees. 

Caves, being enclosed spaces, are presumably also included.  Swildons must be as theoretically it's inside a building anyway (well a block house). 

 

[Peter Burgess]

We have arrived at a sad state of affairs when legislation is seen as the only way to change behaviour deemed by the majority to be a nuisance and potential hazard. In days past common sense and common courtesy, encouraged by good education, were usually sufficient to change public habits. Flatulence is probably the next target.

 

[Brains]

...as in we have to do it to order and in tune?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Or bottle it and sell it back to the gas companies, or pay a Global Warming levy.

 

[anfieldman]

Perhaps Warmbac could fit carbon filters in the seat of all new suits sold?

Sorry, this is going off track a bit.

 

[graham]

We have arrived at a sad state of affairs when legislation is seen as the only way to change behaviour deemed by the majority to be a nuisance and potential hazard. In days past common sense and common courtesy, encouraged by good education, were usually sufficient to change public habits. Flatulence is probably the next target.

Give me one example.