Proposed Renewable Hydro Electric Scheme at Cwm Cynfal, Llan Ffestiniog - Again!

[Plwm72]

Hello all

Back in 2019/2020 I brought to a lot of folks attention, via AditNow, the above proposed Hydro Scheme. There were a number of objections from various individuals and groups with the result that the application was withdrawn due to insufficient information/ reports.

An application for the proposed scheme has now been re-submitted after an Environmental Impact Assessment was carried out.

From an email sent to me -
"Whilst the full Environmental Impact Assessment document and appendices include a substantial amount more information regarding the scheme along with specialist surveys and reports to support our latest planning application, the proposed scheme size and structure is unchanged from previous. On the previous application, concerns were raised regarding potential ground instability above the known mine workings along with the possible presence of bats in the adits as such for inclusion in the Environmental Impact Assessment we commissioned specialist geotechnical engineers & ecologists to inspect the whole site and report their findings. We are pleased to share they confirmed the scheme will not affect any bats or introduce any stability risks to disturb the existing mine workings. Given the current need for diversification in the agricultural sector, this proposed scheme will provide security for future generations as well as allowing us as a family to play a part in tackling the current climate crisis by generating electric from a renewable source."
(Potential disturbance of nesting Peregrine's in the cwm, disturbance of mine waste/ current drainage routes resulting in heavy metals leaching into the watercourse below, benefiting the owners rather than locals, reduced flow to the waterfall (tourist attraction), potential collapse of mine workings (some of the workings are no longer accessible due to blockages underground so who know's how close they once came to surface?) are just a few objections that come to my mind!)

I will be submitting an objection on behalf of the Welsh Mines Society. (As I am not an engineer/ have specialist knowledge it will only be a 'general' objection!)
Please circulate to any interested parties to submit their own objections.

Should anyone have problems viewing the online documents (see link below) send me a PM with your email and I'll forward the documents sent to me.
Please note the closing date for comments is 25th November.

Cheers
Neil
WMS Chair



Viewing the proposal and submitting comments
Copies of: the proposed application; the plans; and other supporting documents can be viewed online at: https://www.rmlconsult.com/cwm-cynfal-pac-documents.html and computer facilities are available to view this information online at The Blaenau Ffestiniog Library*, between the following hours:

Monday 10.00 am -1pm and 2.00 pm - 6.00 pm
Tuesday 10.00 am -1pm and 2.00 pm - 5.00 pm
Wednesday 10.00 am -1pm and 2.00 pm - 5.00 pm
Thursday CLOSED
Friday 10.00 am -1pm and 2.00 pm - 5.00 pm
Saturday 10.00 am -12.30 pm
Sunday CLOSED

OR
You can also view a printed copy of the information at The Blaenau Ffestiniog Library*, between the stated opening hours.
*It is advisable to make an appointment beforehand with the library; telephone 01766 830415 email: LLBlaenau@gwynedd.llyw.cymru

Submitting your representations.
Comments can be completed and submitted either through an online questionnaire form available on https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/LMG9N72 or, by posting the completed online questionnaire to: ‘Cwm Cynfal Questionnaire’, Richards, Moorehead and Laing, Office 1, Llys Clwyd, Cwrt y Dderwen, Ffordd Celyn, Ruthin, Denbighshire LL15 1NJ.
The questionnaire is also available in paper form at The Library, Blaenau Ffestiniog.
Anyone wishing to make any comments about this proposed development should do so by
the 25th November 2023.

 

[Plwm72]

Unable to edit my above post - can someone share to UCET (I don't know anyone from that group), local bat/ conservation groups etc please? Cheers...

 

[davel]

Link sent to info@ucet.org.uk

Dave

 

[RobinGriffiths]

The bryophyte angle is worth looking at. That gorge has a large proportion which are splash/microclimate related which will be adversley impacted by a reduced water flow regimen.

 

[ChrisJC]

I'm struggling to see a problem here. They want to put in a pipe to take water from the top of the waterfall, and stick it through a turbine at the bottom before returning it to the river.

In the grand scheme of things (i.e. quenching our insatiable thirst for energy) this seems like a low impact project.

Chris.

 

[Rob]

I don't know the area and nuances to comments. However I'm interested in whether you are objecting as Chair of the Welsh Mines Society, or on behalf of them (the later presumably needing a vote amongst all members). Probably a mute point and I don't mean to be rude nor question your opinion, but in my experience quite a few people seem to speak for a club/group/society/etc when actually they shouldn't be.

 

[Dave Tyson]

I wrote a report [1] in 2019 highlighting the problems with the original scheme and its hopeless archaeological assessment which conveniently omitted any mention of the adits and the bats therein. It seemed that the promoters of the project employed men/women with white sticks to do the original fieldwork or maybe they were issued with blindfolds

The new documents do at least acknowledge the existence of an adit near the proposed route and also note that the 'quarry scoop' described in the original assessment might be a shaft. From a cursory reading of the voluminous documents they seem to want to mitigate stability issues by capping the shaft with a concrete plug to bedrock and they dismiss fears of increased heavy metal pollution due to surface excavation/working altering water flow. The real fly in the ointment for the project is that they know bugger all about the state of the ground between the surface and the adit. I guess a ground radar survey might provide some reassurance that there isn't a big void waiting for them when they bring a digger in to excavate the hole for the cap.

I would have thought NRW (who may still have a few competent geologists) would have stuck their oar in, but I suspect the developers have greenwashed the project thoroughly and it will just go ahead. It's a stupid project in a stupid location...

Dave

[1] https://penkett.anduin.org.uk/~dtyson/cwmcynfal.doc

 

[AR]

I don't know the area and nuances to comments. However I'm interested in whether you are objecting as Chair of the Welsh Mines Society, or on behalf of them (the later presumably needing a vote amongst all members). Probably a mute point and I don't mean to be rude nor question your opinion, but in my experience quite a few people seem to speak for a club/group/society/etc when actually they shouldn't be.

When there is a planning application in the Peak that potentially impacts mining remains, I comment on behalf of PDMHS in my capacity as conservation officer. Given one of the society's core aims is the preservation of mining remains, I don't see any reason why a vote would be necessary among out membership before I weigh in if I am commenting in a reasoned manner. I do however notify the other officers of the society if what I'm intending to say is potentially controversial, and ultimately if a society member is unhappy with my actions they can raise this at an AGM.
As the WMS is first and foremost a mining history society rather than a caving club, I'd say it is quite appropriate for the chair to raise concerns on behalf of the membership if there are negative impacts to a planning proposal.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

I'm no ecologist, however it strikes me that a gorge of this scale through a calc rich intrusion of diorite and gabbro is a reasonably rare thing in Wales, and as such would be expected to have an assemblage of inhabitants determined both by geology and hydrology. From the original proposal, they had studies which showed the the expected reduciton in 'white water' from a scenic point of view, but that also would alter the seasonal humidity and microclimate in the gorge. Be good project for someone.

 

[royfellows]

I am wondering about the effects of the work while in progress, heavy plant etc. With all due respect to my friend Chris JC, this in itself is a potential issue.

 

[ChrisJC]

If we had applied thinking like this 'back in the day' there would be no Maentwrog hydro, no Cwm Dyli hydro, no Maenofferen hydro, etc. etc. Each one had a measurable effect on it's environment, but we've survived!

It is sad that as a nation, we are unable to do anything without the most extraordinary fight first.

Chris.

 

[RobinGriffiths]

The number of micro hydros around Snowdonia has exploded in the last 15 years so they are certainly being built. There's at least 3 on Snowdon, and two in the Nantlle Valley. Allegedly there's something recent on Elidir as well.

 

[Plwm72]

If there was a way to edit ones post I would probably re-word some of it. Good question Rob and to answer in this instance, as Chair rather than on behalf of. The WMS are a globally spread bunch, from here in Wales to Australia and with only three Meets a year we don't meet up for a social every month where topical subjects could be discussed to get a general consensus. Yes, an email could be sent to all members but what do you decide if you only get 10 responses out of 150+? As an aside, when I was a member of my local caving club, I was on the Committee in various capacities for around 15 years and I think the few times the Committee asked our members for their opinion was only regarding changes to the constitution. Club decisions on behalf of the members often get made by the few... Any response drafted by myself would of course be sent to the other Officers of the Society for their say first. When this subject came up back in 2019 I was also asked by more than one of our members "as the Chair of WMS" are you going to respond....? What does one do?!

 

[ChrisJC]

For Neil's dilemma, it's easy (and I am a WMS member). He should act on behalf of the stated aims of the society, so he's quite right to raise objections on the basis of historical mine remains.

Although I am also keen on historical mine remains, in this case I think the generation of clean energy is more important. But as an individual, I am able to consider factors.

Chris.

 

[kay]

The bryophyte angle is worth looking at. That gorge has a large proportion which are splash/microclimate related which will be adversley impacted by a reduced water flow regimen.

Posted on to the Facebook Bryphyes of Britain and Ireland site

 

[davel]

Article on Daily Post https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/unthinkable-hydro-plan-divert-water-28167247

Dave

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Looks like this has resurfaced again. Registered 17 Jul 2025 - Consulation expiry date 27 Aug 2024. Consultation would be over before most people knew about this, just happens I've ended up on some cc list.

Citizen Portal Planning

 

[RobinGriffiths]

Jul 2024 obvs!!

 

[Stuart France]

Ceunant Cynfal is a National Nature Reserve (NNR) :

Natural Resources Wales / Ceunant Cynfal National Nature Reserve, near Blaenau Ffestiniog

Restored Victorian viewing platform over dramatic waterfall in oak woodland with rare mosses, liverworts and lichens.

naturalresources.wales

and NRW have helpfully uploaded an infographic for an interpretation panel highlighting the botany, geology, fauna etc:
https://cdn.cyfoethnaturiol.cymru/media/696315/ceunant-cynfal-site-information.pdf?mode=pad&rnd=133239630842530000

... which means it has to be an SSSI as well:
https://naturalresources.wales/media/659070/SSSI_1083_Citation_CY00130a3.pdf
https://naturalresources.wales/media/659090/SSSI_1083_PDO_EN001a6be.pdf
https://naturalresources.wales/media/659100/SSSI_1083_SMS_EN001b369.pdf

... which means landowners must consult and obtain conservation consent from Natural Resources Wales (NRW) on any Potentially Damaging Operations (PDOs) including those listed below before carrying out sensitive works which NRW could then block, specifically:

13b. Modification to rivers, including their banks and beds, by regarding or cleaning.
14. Changes in the present utilisation of water, including storage, the raising of water levels and abstraction.
23. Erection of permanent or temporary structures or the undertaking of engineering works, including drilling or the laying, maintenance or removal of pipelines and cables, above or below ground.

The Site Management Statement (follow the links above for all the statutory documentation) was written by Doug Oliver, the CCW warden for the Maentwrog area and one of its top naturalists, long since gone since the NRW regime began.

There has been much concern over the past few decades about potential negative impacts from outdoors pursuits like gorge walking and abseiling which pales into insignificance versus a development plan to divert the river from the famous waterfalls through tunnels some 1200m in length. Yes we need more green energy but this is neither the right way nor the right place to make it.

What was the point of designating this area an NNR and an SSSI and Doug's lifetime endeavours supporting the former CCW to protect nature for itself, for our peaceful enjoyment and for future generations?

 

[nigel n]

Ceunant Cynfal is a National Nature Reserve (NNR) :

Natural Resources Wales / Ceunant Cynfal National Nature Reserve, near Blaenau Ffestiniog

Restored Victorian viewing platform over dramatic waterfall in oak woodland with rare mosses, liverworts and lichens.

naturalresources.wales

and NRW have helpfully uploaded an infographic for an interpretation panel highlighting the botany, geology, fauna etc:
https://cdn.cyfoethnaturiol.cymru/media/696315/ceunant-cynfal-site-information.pdf?mode=pad&rnd=133239630842530000

... which means it has to be an SSSI as well:
https://naturalresources.wales/media/659070/SSSI_1083_Citation_CY00130a3.pdf
https://naturalresources.wales/media/659090/SSSI_1083_PDO_EN001a6be.pdf
https://naturalresources.wales/media/659100/SSSI_1083_SMS_EN001b369.pdf

... which means landowners must consult and obtain conservation consent from Natural Resources Wales (NRW) on any Potentially Damaging Operations (PDOs) including those listed below before carrying out sensitive works which NRW could then block, specifically:

13b. Modification to rivers, including their banks and beds, by regarding or cleaning.
14. Changes in the present utilisation of water, including storage, the raising of water levels and abstraction.
23. Erection of permanent or temporary structures or the undertaking of engineering works, including drilling or the laying, maintenance or removal of pipelines and cables, above or below ground.

The Site Management Statement (follow the links above for all the statutory documentation) was written by Doug Oliver, the CCW warden for the Maentwrog area and one of its top naturalists, long since gone since the NRW regime began.

There has been much concern over the past few decades about potential negative impacts from outdoors pursuits like gorge walking and abseiling which pales into insignificance versus a development plan to divert the river from the famous waterfalls through tunnels some 1200m in length. Yes we need more green energy but this is neither the right way nor the right place to make it.

What was the point of designating this area an NNR and an SSSI and Doug's lifetime endeavours supporting the former CCW to protect nature for itself, for our peaceful enjoyment and for future generations?