Pros and Cons of Different Bolts

[cap n chris]

On a somewhat related note; when on expedition do people ever use stainless steel through bolts over the normal zinc plated ones

Yes; because there will be return visits - unless it's just to check leads rather than bolt main through routes.

 

[martinm]

i have unscrewed the Collinox and reused it elswhere in some circumstances which can be useful but that is probably a reason not to use them in heavily trafficked caves - some people will steal anything.

The M12 Excalibur screwbolts I use in the Manifold area need a much smaller hole drilling for them (12mm) and they bite into the rock as they are screwed in. If you want them to be permanent, you could always glue them in place with an appropriate resin. Just squirt some in before you screw the bolt in...

http://www.excaliburscrewbolts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=36&Itemid=39

Not dissing the job the BCA are doing on this, they are doing an excellent job.  Just pointing out an alternative. (There are no p-bolts in the Manifold area due to it being a less popular area, but there are a number of 15-20m pitches in various caves.)

Regards, Mel.

 

[pwhole]

On a project I'm working on, we're using exactly that approach - stainless when we know it'll be permanent, and zinced when it's temporary or exploratory. Due to the ancient qualities of the hole (from a structural and a historical perspective), we're trying to keep bolts to a minimum, and using trees where possible as additional anchors, but the expense of the stainless means some zinc ones have to be used lower down - it's all coming out of my pocket, so it has to be cost-effective! I'm using the Raumer Hang-Fix stainless with the double cones in 8mm and 10mm with Minox and Rock hangers.

For conservation reasons I don't want to have a rusty mess down below in 20 years, hence the minimal approach - and I'm using relatively posh zinced bolts too for the same reason - Fischer FAZ IIs.

 

[SamT]

For conservation reasons I don't want to have a rusty mess down below in 20 years, hence the minimal approach

The self tapping multi monti style that mmilner is so fond of may be a great option for the temporary placements as they can be completely removed and the hole just filled with a tiny bit of clay. 

it's all coming out of my pocket, so it has to be cost-effective!

They're cheap and re-useable else where!!. 

 

[Mike Hopley]

On a somewhat related note; when on expedition do people ever use stainless steel through bolts over the normal zinc plated ones or is it not worth it?

I've noticed a recent shift towards stainless steel bolts when I was on expedition. This year we were mainly using Raumer Rainoxes, whereas in years gone by it was usually Spits.

I think this is a sign of progress: people are starting to care more about conserving the cave, and less about saving money.

 

[cavermark]

it's all coming out of my pocket, so it has to be cost-effective! I'm using the Raumer Hang-Fix stainless with the double cones in 8mm and 10mm with Minox and Rock hangers.

For conservation reasons I don't want to have a rusty mess down below in 20 years, hence the minimal approach - and I'm using relatively posh zinced bolts too for the same reason - Fischer FAZ IIs.

Isn't there a fund for this - DCA conservation or similar?

 

[ianball11]

NFTFH has a fund for works too.

edit: intended for NFTFH caves mind.

 

[cavermark]

NFTFH has a fund for works too.

edit: intended for NFTFH caves mind.

NFTFH - WTF BTW?

 

[paul]

NFTFH has a fund for works too.

edit: intended for NFTFH caves mind.

NFTFH - WTF BTW?

Not For The Faint Hearted!

 

[cavermark]

NFTFH has a fund for works too.

edit: intended for NFTFH caves mind.

NFTFH - WTF BTW?

Not For The Faint Hearted!

Thanks

 

[pwhole]

it's all coming out of my pocket, so it has to be cost-effective! I'm using the Raumer Hang-Fix stainless with the double cones in 8mm and 10mm with Minox and Rock hangers.

For conservation reasons I don't want to have a rusty mess down below in 20 years, hence the minimal approach - and I'm using relatively posh zinced bolts too for the same reason - Fischer FAZ IIs.

Isn't there a fund for this - DCA conservation or similar?

There is - but sadly this job is still rather secret, owing to all sorts of reasons that I can't go into, but mostly positive ones. The main thing is to get it all surveyed, a rigging guide drawn up, photographed and linked up with other features nearby and then it'll all be taken out again, bar the bolts. Then we can either go public or keep schtum, depending on the weather. Maybe then I could claim it back, but to be honest, it hardly seems worth it, given the fun I've had exploring the place.

 

[cavermark]

Are there any DCA representatives that could comment whether a donation could be made for cave conversation, even if the location was a secret?

Even if access isn't granted at the moment, surely the principle of installing stainless for permanent anchors in any cave/mine is worth upholding. Access may be granted in 20years time, when steel has become an unusable mess...