Re: G7 Camera

[menacer]

I don't think the optical quality is as good as my Canon G7.

Nick.

Just been looking at the Canon G9 specs. It has a manual mode ...woo hoo..
Any pros/cons about this camera Nick/ogofmole?? (the G7 )
Do you keep it in an Aquapac??

or just take good care underground...
Do you use an external flash with it...??
Out of interest is it a flash mode that requires firefly3's??

thanks
Carm

 

[Lincolnshire poacher]

I've had a G9 for 4 months or so and am very impressed.  Its put up with being taken into Cwmorthin slate mine, performed very well at a local air show and spent couple of weeknights rummaging round the Forest of Dean.  Pics it takes are very good, aint reid RAW yet as me PC cant cope.  There is apparently an issue with dust getting sucked in by static caused by the lens moving in and out, see here for details http://www.flickr.com/groups/g9/discuss/72157604696974052.  So far i aint had any trouble with dust, spose only time will tell.

 

[Stupot]

Hi Menacer, I am useless when it comes to camera talk but I use the G9 waterproof housing:

WP-DC21

Which is very good, although the rear screen get's very scuffed and will need some protecting with a clear protector film, as for slaves I use the Firefly 2 and they work fine.

Any more technical stuff Rob is your man, he will probably reply at work tomorrow when he should be working 

Stu.

PS. It's a great camera.

 

[Hammy]

I have just bought a Canon Powershot G5 off Ebay for ?130. It is an awesome camera at the price (was ?390 new a couple of years ago)

I used it to take a good few shots in Eglwys Faen this week and rapidly concluded that I really need the waterproof/mudproof housing if it is to have any form of longevity in caves! Only used the inbuilt flash. Also took some shots on a summer solstice trip to see the Helvellyn sunrise and they have come out very well indeed.

If you really need maximum pixels then maybe you need the G7 or 9 but the G5 will do for all my needs at one hell of a saving.

(The housing is ?72)

 

[menacer]

Where did you buy the housing at that price for???
I like the G9 because of the larger screen size...my eyesights not like it used to be....  :-[
Slightly concerned about  the dust in the lens thing with them, so some sort of housing is a must..
Good to hear firefly 2s will work them(thanks stu-hows the patient BTW), i have the multi function "i slaves" but they always seem to revert to the single flash mode at the drop of a hat!!
The best i good get for a housing was about ?100 from hongkong!!

 

[Stupot]

Hey Carm, the patient (Hellie) is doing fine thanks although she is very frustrated at not being able to cave for 6 - 8 week's

I think Hammy must mean the G5 housing is ?72, as I searched for ages for my G9 housing and the best price at the time with P&P was Amazon.

Housing: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-WP-DC21-Waterproof-Case-PowerShot/dp/B000V74S1Y

As for the G9 it's self I went with Best Price Brands.

Canon G9 Powershot: http://www.bestpricedbrands.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=470&sendroicid=cb410acc-cd40-4c63-8487-a37f586c79f8&sendroiad=1948643783&sendroikwd=Canon+G9

I know you can get them both cheaper from China etc but I am also a little dubious if I need to send them back for what ever reason, that's if they turn up in the first place.

Stu.

 

[Rob]

Hi Poacher. Cheers for bringing this issue to our attention, worrying indeed. However my G7 lasted 18 months with no dust problems in the lens. It has died in many other ways first!

I think this problem will be apparent with most compact cameras that have retractable lenses, that's why mine's always in its underwater housing when in dirty conditions (ie caving!).

 

[Rob]

Hi Menacer,

All of Canon's Powershot G-Series offer "full" manual control. They are part of Canon's top of the range compact cameras (at time of release) and generally come with the same speed processors that are in the big SLR ranges. The optics are very high quality (for a compact) and the post-shot processing is generally second to none. The Powershot A-Series offer a "selection" of manual controls but are generally of cheaper build quality and lack some of the speed/power, hence being about 50% of the price. However they should definitely not be crossed off the list of potentials.

My experience is really only with the G7 and G9, and my generaly consensus is that if you want a camera that you can take anywhere and take as good photos as you want, then buy one of these! I have spent many a trip underground with Robbie Shone and his big Canon 5D and unless you do really want to push the boundaries of cave photography using ultra narrow depth of field or really wide angled shots, a G9 will definitely do! The contrast and colours of the shots are great, and the quality of the G9 is impressive even at full digital zoom!

Unfortunately there is no easy way of using the hotshoe through the case (radio transmitters still too big) so to external flash you will want a Firefly 2, or similar slave. On manual mode the flash only fires once so this is easy, and as Stu has said just mount an infrared filter inside the housing over the flash and you're away. The settings in manual mode give a very wide array of control, but unfortunately you are still stuck with 15s max exposure time. It is possible to download a software hack that allows you to do a lot more (1/100,000 - 999s exposure times) but so far there isn't one for the G9 and it really deserves it's own thread. See for details  http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK

I definitely wouldn't dream of taking one underground without a waterproof housing, and luckily Canon supply most of their compact cameras with a dedicated housing meaning that you need to spend ?100 rather than +?300 for an Ikelite housing. Other camera manufactures are now starting to follow suit, here is a good site http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/d_stills/index.html.

I recently upgraded my G7 for a G9 and it cost me about ?370 inc housing and import tax http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Waterproof-Package-WP-DC21-PowerShot-G9-AB07_W0QQitemZ310060352344. This Ebay company "DigitalRev" have been selling cameras for over 8 years now and i have never had a problem with their service. In fact, they tend to fill the delivery box with free gifts! However i agree with Stu that if you don't trust internation eBayers from HK then fair enough, pay the extra but still stick with Amazon or another internet based company.

Happy hunting...

 

[nickwilliams]

There is very little I can add to Rob's comments. Although in a previous life I used to design photographic enlargers, I don't consider myself to be any sort of expert on photography and I bought my G7 after playing with Rob's for a little while. I did all my photography in Mulu with an Ixus 700 and I was impressed by the extra level of flexibility which the G7 gave. I use a camera at work for taking photographs of machinery so the extra number of pixels in the G7 is useful since it allows a higher degree of enlargement to look at the details of labelling when back at my desk although for print reproduction of full shots the 7Mp of the Ixus 700 is more than adequate.

One good point about the G7 is it uses the same full size batteries as the Canon DSLRs. Not only does this mean that you get a load more shots than you would from a full charge of an Ixus battery but for the Mulu expedition I'd have found it much easier to borrow battery packs if I needed to since there were three other people with Canon DSLRs but no-one else had a compact camera with IXUS 700 compatible batteries.

The only downside I have found so far is that I still find it difficult to take in-focus close-up macro shots of subjects which have a poor contrast with their background. I think this is mainly a failing in my competence rather than in the camera.

I don't have a waterproof housing. I have found that the G7 fits very nicely into a Pelicase 1020, with space for the spare battery.

Nick

 

[Rob]

...One good point about the G7 is it uses the same full size batteries as the Canon DSLRs...

As fas as I'm aware, only the 350d (Rebel XT) and the 400d (Rebel XTi), although these two probably form a very large proprtion of the Canon dSLRs out there.

...The only downside I have found so far is that I still find it difficult to take in-focus close-up macro shots of subjects which have a poor contrast with their background. I think this is mainly a failing in my competence rather than in the camera...

Yes it's true the auto focus on the G7, although very speedy, is not always spot on in macro mode. I think a few changes were made when they released the G9 as the whole AF system seems to work better. 

For those after a sound unbiased review on any camera DPReview is generally the best place to look first... http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong9/

 

[menacer]

I recently upgraded my G7 for a G9 and it cost me about ?370 inc housing and import tax http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Waterproof-Package-WP-DC21-PowerShot-G9-AB07_W0QQitemZ310060352344. This Ebay company "DigitalRev" have been selling cameras for over 8 years now

Arghhh ?370 worse off now via playpal .. It was a brilliant buy (extra  battery an all ), couldn't resist...Thanks for the tip off, you should be earning a commission.

When you were abroad, with no mains electric how did you get on with battery life....(she asks completely expecting Nick to have solved the problem by installing solar panels in his jungle hat or harnessing energy from a rubber plant or some other such method of geekiness.... )
Basically are the batteries lasting long enough with the flashes underground.(canons site says 240 images with flash used every 2 shots) Im guessing 120 images per battery...does that sound about right??

 

[menacer]

..Thanks for the tip off, you should be earning a commission.

On thorough checking of the digitalrev website it seems rob can earn commission from my order (and I a discount of ?10). I should have input the relevant info at Checkout....fingers crossed its not too late.

 

[Rob]

....fingers crossed its not too late.

Good luck with that! 

 

[ogofmole]

You should be very happy with the G7, excellent camera although bulky in it's waterproof housing. I have had no problems with macro work with my G7 although I do use manual focus. Image enclosed.

 

[Lincolnshire poacher]

Never thought of using the underwater housing, may have to look into this!.

Try Argos as well.  When i looked it was ?299 in the catalouge, got to the till and was asked for ?269......Woo Hoo!!.

 

[DaveR]

One thing to watch out for is grit getting between the lens and the metal shutters which close when you power down. My G9 lens has a vertical scratch which I suspect is down to a speck of grit or something being run down the lens as the shutters close. I may have just scratched the lens of course, but one to look out for. I find that as the housing means I can't fit the G9 and two Vivitar 285s in a small Pelicase (if I have to use a big case or two cases I might as well take my SLR) I am using the camera unprotected. I have used my SLR in some pretty unclean spots without damage other than cosmetic; maybe I've been lucky with the SLR and unlucky with the G9, or maybe the metal lens shutters are a bit of a weakness in the G9 from a cave point of view?
In a similar vein, I bought the Canon wide angle lens adaptor, which is very good but HUGE! This makes it as big as my SLR, so returned it unused. I have kept the adaptor ring which you buy in order to use the wide adaptor, which means I can put a UV filter on to keep cack out of the lens. Nikon have just released a G9 type compact with a 28mm lens rather than the 35mm on the G9. Being somewhat addicted to the 10-20mm zoom I have for the SLR, wider is better for underground use...If snowcard pay cash for the G9 claim instead of replacement I might have to check out the Nikon P6000 http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08080702nikonp6000.asp

 

[Rob]

Yes, there are a number of good compacts falling out of the big companies now, each with specs to rival the G9, especially when it comes to lens width.

Sigma DP1 - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sigmadp1/ at 28mm
Leica D-Lux 3 - http://www.dpreview.com/news/0609/06091408leicadlux3.asp at 28mm to 112mm
Panasonic LX2 - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasoniclx2/ at 28mm to 112mm
Ricoh GX200 - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Ricoh/ricoh_gx200.asp  at 24mm to 72mm

I have to say the Nikon P6000 is probably still the G9's closest rival. However good luck finding a compact camera with full manual controls that comes with an underwater housing all for less than ?400. Although with Photokina only 2 weeks away, who knows what's going to pop up soon! Maybe a G10? 

 

[Rob]

...Although with Photokina only 2 weeks away, who knows what's going to pop up soon! Maybe a G10?...

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,7038.0.html 

 

[francis]

I have to say the Nikon P6000 is probably still the G9's closest rival.

The only negative thing I can think of is the new NRW raw format.

-

For about the same price as a G9 you can get a Nikon D40 kit (or a used D70(s)), which will give you far superior high ISO performance, and much better DOF controll because of the substantially larger sensor. Without having tried the G9, I can imagine that using manual focus is easier with an SLR.

Francis

 

[Rob]

For about the same price as a G9 you can get a Nikon D40 kit

But that won't come in an idiot proof case for ?100.
Also if you don't already own an slr, the extra lenses for different shooting conditions (inc. above ground) bump up the initial investment a lot.
Also a D40 won't fit in a small daren drum with two flash guns.

But yes, an slr will produce improved photos, especially at high iso and with a much nicer dof. Horses for courses i guess...