Removable bolts from Petzl

[SamT]

 

 

[SamT]

Bump,

Inspired by a post on facebook I thought I'd drag this thread up - also in light of the concrete bolts thread too.

So whats the latest thoughts.  Anyone any direct experience.  I initially thought that cavers had discounted these as being

a: way too expensive (~?40 or per each    though I've seen the 8mm heavily discounted online for ?25)
b: unlikely to survive the rigours of mud/grit/water etc encountered underground.

 

[Joe90]

I wasn't there unfortunately, but I believe they 8mm were used recently by the guys in Mexico with good results.

Sent from my HUAWEI TIT-AL00 using Tapatalk

 

[Barny]

I have three of them. A christmas gift. They are excellent though getting hold of the right bit to drill the holes took a bit of an effort initially. I use them for prospecting so do not subject them to the rigours of underground. They are quick to place and have just become cost effective (compared to both spits and through bolts) and even if this was not so another plus is that there are no bits of metal left if the drop proves unfruitful.
Despite being developped by one of the members of the group I cave with here in France and also having the Petzl rep for SW France as a member we have not managed any good deals. I would like to use them a lot more.

Spits are still preferred here so have to go with the flow when initially bolting something that is likely to be repeated.

 

[MJenkinson]

Some were used in the PC expedition in Mexico this year.  They were used primarily for bolting up climbs, then removed and anchors for fixed ropes placed using through bolts.  I abseiled a pitch and climbed back up on them and they held, although believe me I prussicked more smoothly than I have ever done!

 

[Burt]

One of the problems building owners have is that when, e.g. 100 permanent anchors are installed on a building, the building owner becomes responsible for their regular inspection. Every 12 months for fall arrest or work restraint purposes and every 6 months if they are used for rope access work. This can become quite expensive. I've been doing 6 monthly examinations on permanently installed anchors on a building in Sheffield for the past 5 years and they've never been used in all that time.

Removable Petzl anchors will save industry an absolute fortune. Unfortunately it is those who usually carry out the examinations that will lose out. Such is life.

Mark

I'm doing a similar job on a building in Dorset. Having watched the video in the clip, I won't be using them as there are too many variables which have to be PERFECT to achieve the require strength.
We are using concrete screws with bolt hanger plates to access the towers and roofs, then installing permanent wire systems where required. These go through the roof and are bolted to steelwork.

Also, on the video, the holes need to be perfectly round (but look at the hole he inserts the demo into! did a woodpecker make it?) - that's achievable underground, but the whole thing looks too fiddly and prone to dirt ingress to use in a cave environment.

Another example of petzl finding a solution, then inventing a problem for it to fix???

 

[pwhole]

I haven't had any issues finding the drill bits - they're Hilti, and available in many places. They're not cheap, but last for ages and drill a very round hole. However, I also have concerns about the dirt ingress issue - not so much inside the hole itself as that can be cleaned out with a blower and brush, but it's the dirt and grit picked from the rock surface, gloves, etc. that will be the issue It's very rare to have a perfectly flat, clean and dry surface to bolt into underground, and without taking clean water and a brush/rags with you, there's not really any way of fixing it once you've got started.

Also I didn't realise they were ?40 each. The screwbolts I use are around 45p each, and are thrown away after removal, but I've got through well over 100 on our current project so far. I'm sure the cost can easily be justified for work, as long as they're looked after, but given the way many RA techs treat their kit, I'm not sure how many would survive for long in that context.

 

[andrew]

As MJenkinson said I used them in PC, Mexico, not that I actually got to climb an aven with them. I think that they are going to be a game changer. I have only fitted about 15 so long term use will remain a question, however, I do not see how they will wear out that quickly nor will the holes if they are re-used, due to the way the mechanism works. Will dirt stop them working, maybe, but not that likely unless you really are careless, they are after all designed for caving.

For aven climbing they require so much less placement than through bolts or concrete screws, being almost instantly clipable, so for dynamic climbing they will make a massive difference, not so much for bolt to bolt aiding. As for the flat surface mentioned above, in this respect they are no different from other anchors, placement effects the strength, that is a decision to be made when doing the climb!

 

[Disgusted from Cornwall.]

?40 each!

Holy schmoley. I will stick to whack bolts or rawlbolts.

That is quite an expense