Secondhand kit- safety issues

[terry-w]

Similar point to the 'when to retire kit' thread below. 
This came up as a friend is wanting to buy an srt kit. He is buying the harness etc new but we were discussing the safety issues surrounding buying metalwork  - jammers, krabs, stop, secondhand and wondered if there was a general consensus on this.

He is considering buying from a chap who gave up caving some while ago, so the equipment hasn't necessarily had much use, but has been packed in a loft for 10+ years.  Does any deterioration take place, does anyone know? 

My personal thought is that I wouldn't want to be having that debate with myself halfway up a pitch!

 

[damian]

Personally I have no issues with buying old metalwork (jammers, descenders, krabs, hangers etc) provided I check them carefully before I use them. The metal won't itself automatically deteriorate with age (as far as I am aware), so the only things to worry about can largely be checked. I'd be looking for wear and tear, as follows:

Jammers - wear around the holes that connect to krabs / central maillons etc; wear of teeth (bear in mind that lots of wear on one small area is a problem - 10mm ropes will always be gripped with the same teeth); general shape of jammer vs. a new one - check the frame for bending etc. With crolls especially check the amount of metal left across the small piece of wrap-around metal that holds the rope in place.

Bobbin Descenders - check wear on the actual bobbins; check the general shape again against a new one (bending etc), check the nut is done up tight ; check the black plastic (or metal on older ones) clip shuts properly when attached to a krab.

Krabs - check for wear all around; on alloy check for white spots or non-shiny areas that may have been left in contact with steel and reacted; check the gates shut properly.

The one thing you can't properly check for is whether the alloy has been dropped (potentially suffering from internal fractures in the metal). If this concerns you, ignore all the above and buy new.

 

[Amy]

Re the krabs - I was recently reading a research article that stated that these small invisible hairline fractures were actually not an issue. If I can find it again I'll post it. It was part of a "myth debunking" thing surrounding vertical work.

Metal won't "just degrade" sitting around - but do check it for white spotting, and that it's in working order of course.

I have some used kit myself - my handled ascenders are both used. I knew the person selling them and I liked the older style Petzl (with the knob for the thumb to open rather than the plastic shelf) better as it was easier for my smaller hands to use. They work fine! =)

 

[Penguin]

Severe corrosion on a fancy alloy karabiner...

 

[graham]

Penguin

I don't think I'd actually buy that one, second-hand.

 

[Penguin]

I wouldn't even buy that (again) new 

Used in the sea (admittedly not the best place to use alloy krabs), but washed in fresh water immediately afterwards and put away in a warm garage to dry, touching a stainless steel D ring in storage.  Three weeks later that was the result.  The "metal" can be picked off. 

 

[Burt]

Oh , penguin, that has really narked me off. I've got exactly that model of krab on my lifejacket harness - mine looks good as new, but I'm wondering how long it will last?

 

[droid]

Avoid electrolytic corrosion and it'll be fine, mate.

 

[Amy]

I wouldn't even buy that (again) new 

Used in the sea (admittedly not the best place to use alloy krabs), but washed in fresh water immediately afterwards and put away in a warm garage to dry, touching a stainless steel D ring in storage.  Three weeks later that was the result.  The "metal" can be picked off.

And here I thought a lot of krabs lived in the sea...you'd think they'd enjoy the water more!

Sorry I'm bad  :chair:

 

[Penguin]

Shedding its shell like crab...?

Avoid electrolytic corrosion and it'll be fine, mate.

I don't think it's as simple as that.  I've started another thread with more pictures and detail. 

 

[hrock]

another point on jammer inspection.

check every tooth is there as when shock loaded jammers often snap off one tooth and this is almost impossible to do with out shock loading if it is missing one tooth bin it. 

 

[terry-w]

Damian etc, thank you for your very comprehensive response.  Some very useful points there.  The guy he bought from turns out to be a friend of a friend so has a bit more confidence that he hasn't just bought a stop that been dropped down a pitch etc!
Terry.