Smashed Formations

[IanWalker]

I seem to stumble across piles of these on many trips, whats the situation on this? And is it ok to take them home with me? I have found some whopping stals lying on the cave floor, seems a shame to leave them down there really.

please forgive me if I think this thread is bollocks and it's going nowhere.

forgiven.  but it seems a valid query was raised, answered by a number of people.  as it happens they were in agreement.  i would say that is not bollocks, but in fact a good use of the forum.   

just a shame it was a joke question.  perhaps someone has learnt something.  maybe.  no? 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Leave nothing but footprints (and stale breath) etc etc.

A broken stal isn't necessarily the result of human action, accidental or otherwise. There are a number of natural events which can cause stal to break, and if bits are lying around and get removed, you are removing whatever scientific evidence there might be for such an event, whether an earthquake, flood, roof collapse, passing cave bear etc.

Maybe not a huge issue in the big scheme of things, but the unconditional rule not to take anything out of a cave is pretty easy to remember.

 

[cap n chris]

just a shame it was a joke question.  perhaps someone has learnt something.  maybe.  no?   

Please repost the joke question as I can't see it.

 

[SamT]

What is the opinion on digging and stals?  I have a digging friend who says that he often breaks stals to try and widen a passage that he is digging in. 

as people have stated - it is very very site specific, sometimes digs have to dig through stal.
Only by visiting a dig site would one be able to comment on whether or not damage to formations would be considered appropriate/acceptable or not.

is there any regulation controlling how people and where people dig?

Not really, only by ones peers.
There are laws regarding SSSI sites. But as chris has stated, it would be virtually impossible to prosicute anyone successfully without CCTV etc etc.

Caving Bodies such as DCA do a great deal of work to raise the profile of Cave Conservation, producing leaflets such as "do you dig caves" aiming to educate the caving community on conservation a legal matters.

At the end of the day - its the old conundrum of Preservation vs Conservation.

If you want to preserve a cave - block the entrance and never let anyone in again.
best you can do is conserve the cave, by what ever method satisifies all the concerned parties.

 

[IanWalker]

Please repost the joke question as I can't see it.

I seem to stumble across piles of these on many trips, whats the situation on this? And is it ok to take them home with me? I have found some whopping stals lying on the cave floor, seems a shame to leave them down there really.

the original question seemed straight enough, but reading mr conners' follow up post seemed to me to indicate that the original question was just a lure for mr conners' friends.  further, he is "well aware" of the answer to his own question.

Ah ha, got you both out of the woodwork.
I knew you wouldnt be able to resist this one Chris. Nice pic Paul.
I am well aware that we must leave the caves as we find them...

hope that makes sense and that i've not misread the intent, apologies if so.

 

[cap n chris]

I seem to stumble across piles of these on many trips, whats the situation on this? And is it ok to take them home with me? I have found some whopping stals lying on the cave floor, seems a shame to leave them down there really.

the original question seemed straight enough,

Agreed, and thanks for the clarification! The original question is entirely reasonable and, certainly on Mendip, such scenarios are commonplace, with the usual answer (as stated above in earlier posts) that broken bits of stal should remain where they are.

As for the "joke" bit you've highlighted, I don't get it so I guess it's a private joke - hardly surprising, then, that it got missed.

My comments about bollocks were digression-specific; i.e. prosecution/regulation is a pipe dream.

 

[Downer]

Leave nothing but footprints (and stale breath) etc etc.

A broken stal isn't necessarily the result of human action, accidental or otherwise. There are a number of natural events which can cause stal to break, and if bits are lying around and get removed, you are removing whatever scientific evidence there might be for such an event, whether an earthquake, flood, roof collapse, passing cave bear etc.

Maybe not a huge issue in the big scheme of things, but the unconditional rule not to take anything out of a cave is pretty easy to remember.

One day, when graham is dead, mankind will set about repairing the planet. Forests will be re-planted, deserts will blossom and broken stalactites will sellotaped together again. Those bits of broken stal need to be looked after, one way or another.

 

[graham]

One day, when graham is dead, mankind will set about repairing the planet. Forests will be re-planted, deserts will blossom and broken stalactites will sellotaped together again. Those bits of broken stal need to be looked after, one way or another.

You cannot replant forests if you've chopped down all the trees and not kept any seed.

Just remember; there were once trees on Easter Island, there are no trees now. Somebody chopped down the last tree.

 

[Peter Burgess]

A bit like Paulf's head... 

 

[Downer]

One day, when graham is dead, mankind will set about repairing the planet. Forests will be re-planted, deserts will blossom and broken stalactites will sellotaped together again. Those bits of broken stal need to be looked after, one way or another.

You cannot replant forests if you've chopped down all the trees and not kept any seed.
Just remember; there were once trees on Easter Island, there are no trees now. Somebody chopped down the last tree.

Silly man. He should have gone to Spec Savers.

 

[IanWalker]

My comments about bollocks were digression-specific; i.e. prosecution/regulation is a pipe dream.

Quite.

 

[mrodoc]

Depends where the formations are. they used to be all over fairy cave quarry - these came back to chard. Used to have a stal boss in the garden covered in helictites. Left in the quarry it would have been smashed or buried. Underground is of course a different matter. Cave formations never look right  out of a cave (that applies to the stal boss)why people collect them I don't know.

 

[pete h]

Depends where the formations are. they used to be all over fairy cave quarry - these came back to chard. Used to have a stal boss in the garden covered in helictites. Left in the quarry it would have been smashed or buried. Underground is of course a different matter. Cave formations never look right  out of a cave (that applies to the stal boss)why people collect them I don't know.

Then why did you take them back to Chard then Pete.   

 

[richardg]

The cave Vandals captured on video, but who is going to these lot on?
Hope this link works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl98ejJsd8M

R

 

[mrodoc]

Depends where the formations are. they used to be all over fairy cave quarry - these came back to chard. Used to have a stal boss in the garden covered in helictites. Left in the quarry it would have been smashed or buried. Underground is of course a different matter. Cave formations never look right  out of a cave (that applies to the stal boss)why people collect them I don't know.

Then why did you take them back to Chard then Pete.   

30 years ago we were more laid back and in fact it was my dad who brought it back.  :-[