Smoking in Caves

[NewStuff]

considered to be as heinous a crime as direct wilful damage to speleothems, sediments etc. and contravention of access procedures, with the ultimate sanction of offending clubs and individuals being excommunicated from the BCA.

Should someone come up to me with that particular line of pathetic, hand-wringing pissyness, I'd stub the bloody fag out on them. Smoking a fag would be the same as deliberately breaking features or removing gates? With a result that others in a club (who may well not even be on the trip) are hoofed out of the BCA?

You are the kind of person I refered to in my post, and as a result of Your attitude, I would likely chain smoke through the whole trip, making sure I was in front of You where possible. Just to piss You off.

 

[droid]

I agree with NewStuff's sentiment, but being the gentle, considerate soul that I am, I'd probably just restrict it to pissing myself laughing.

 

[cap n chris]

Working with youth groups in a cave clearly has two considerations regarding smoking (1) It's a workplace so smoke isn't really much fun for the people who have little choice but to endure it and (2) Smoking is a documented trigger for asthma attacks which off the top of my head kills somewhere in the region of 100,000+ people per year and affects something like 8% of the UK youth population; therefore it's a safe bet than in a popular cave with a couple of youth groups in it, at least one child will be asthmatic and anyone smoking in there may directly be the cause of a medical emergency or, at worse, even a fatality.

Smoking in popular caves, or caves which contain bats, should definitely be prohibited by BCA statute, imo.

Smoking by diggers in a cave which has no other traffic, or bats, is their own concern and wouldn't be relevant though.

 

[graham]

I( am afraid that I do not have the relevant references to hand, but it was my understanding - happy to be disproved if anyone has got access to the relevant papers - that smoking and radon together act as multipiers and vastly increase the possibility of lung cancer.

Edit: see the paper that Bob Smith posted a link to over on the radon thread.

However, Chris's point about asthma triggers is probably the most relevant one that has yet been made on this thread. Of course it doesn't only apply to youth groups, asthma is found in the adult population as well.

 

[gus horsley]

I used to smoke and at the time it was perfectly acceptable to do so underground - I'm sure that was the main reason people used carbide lamps, so you could light fags.  I tend to get into old mines nowadays and I can usually tell if a party with a smoker has been through Cligga within the last couple of hours or so, but that's only in one particular part of the mine which is unfortunately where there's a colony of greater horseshoe bats and I often wonder if there's a significant detrimental effect on passively-smoking cave fauna.

I used to do clean-up trips in Llygad Llwchwr and on one occasion I found a half eaten packet of polo mints which someone had carelessly (deliberately?) dropped in a small pool, possibly a few days previously.  Not only could the smell (and it wasn't particularly nice) be detected through much of the cave, it also made me wonder what environmental impact was going on there too.

 

[Pony]

Sincerly, hats off to you Hammy. A man with courage behind his convictions is a rareity these days. I do find your method a heinious breach of trust. The contributors to this thread have given their views openly, and in good faith both smokers and non smokers alike. You have not. I ve been a caver for nigh on a quarter of a century,not a super caver just an ordinary Joe. I joined this forum hoping I may be able to help in some small way; I don't have all the answers. On this site I have seen so much bickering and posturing compared to other forums, where you ask a question you get an answer. Not too much to ask.
Thanks to your under hand tactics I feel I can not make a contribution in honesty and openess.
Don't bother trying to reply as I am logging off for good.
Tek it stedy all

 

[Rob]

This forum is hilarious! 

 

[cap n chris]

Yes, it's fun 24:7:365. Makes I laff.

 

[TheBitterEnd]

It even amuses me that some of the least funny stuff is in the "Friday Joke" thread 

 

[bograt]

Hmm, so, wrt CRoW, is caving an "open air" sport, if so, it is not illegal to smoke in the open air, even if it is a work space. If, however you consider it a confined work place, bang go the CRoW arguments.
Furthermore, I consider carbide to be a far more serious risk to the cave environment and although discouraged it has only been officially banned in a handful of access controlled systems, there is no universal blanket ban as yet. If we are looking at across the board rules, regs and bans, lets take the more serious issues first.

 

[kieronyoung]

it is not illegal to smoke in the open air, even if it is a work space.

I believe it is (But may be mistaken)... a brick layer cannot smoke whilst building a house in the open air, a track man cant smoke whilst lying track, a police person cant smoke whilst walking a beat even though its an open space..

Edit i dont actually believe what i said here is fact as i cant find anything to back it up. sorry

 

[langcliffe]

a police person cant smoke whilst walking a beat even though its an open space..

Edit i dont actually believe what i said here is fact as i cant find anything to back it up. sorry

Apparently he/she/it can't smoke in uniform in public:  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/6434867.stm