SRT Krabs

[Pinch]

Hi All,

I am putting together my first SRT kit. I have bought a harness (Singing Rock - Digger ) after the advice from a good friend who bought one recently.

I am trying to find out about the different views on Krab types?

Based on some experience and advice from other cavers, I was looking at buying 3 x HMS Krabs and 2 x snap gates for the cowstails? but after reading some articles on the CNCC TG sites they advise to use screwgate or twist gate krabs on safety loops/Cows tails?

That sounds like good advice to me but just wondered what types people would recommend and how many ??

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as I'm sure you all know what it's like as a new lad !!!!

Many Thanks and Regards,

DP

 

[Mine Explorer]

Personally I use snap-krabs on the cows-tails, as do everyone else I've met - I think!

When I'm waltzing along traverses and passing frequent belay points I don't want to be constantly winding and unwinding the screw gate. In a similar way that you can guarentee when you want to clip in quickly you'll find the gate has worked itself locked!

I think cows-tails are the only place snap-krabs do get used underground. Every other application would want gate locks, personally the few moments spent winding the gate down gives a certain sense of security that twist-locks don't. Both types are safe as each other - it's just a "feeling" I get!


Of course, having said this I will admit that when I first started I bought screw-gate krabs for the cows-tails, after a while when I could afford a bit more equipment I bought snap-krabs and the screw gates were moved to my belt for those occasions when a krab is required and not to hand!

 

[Stu]

Screw gates on cows tails for me. I don't screw them when not needed but can when I do. I've tried (and started out on snaps) all flavours and variations and revisited them all at least twice. Will stick with this combo. This is only my preference and no way constitutes advice!!!

 

[Jonathan T]

I'd have at least one screw gate although I actually have two.

 

[SamT]

I suppose you've read my SRT rig note on the Central Mallion Thread.

I reckon snap gates - they must have a nice wide 'mouth' i.e the gap when open for ease of getting in and out of hangers when your doing re belays etc.
Screwgates a cumbersome / clumsy for this job. Due to the fact that you should try and have two things if not 3 clipped at all times - i.e jammers - stops etc coupled with the actual likely hood of a snap gate un clipping iteself being increadibly small - the extra security of a screw gate in not necessary.

The gate open strength of krabs (7Kn) these days far out strips the need to worry. If your involved in a 7kn fall - its not your krab you should worry about - its your spleen/back/neck cause they'll be f**cked way before your krab.

If like stu - you are worried about having a screw gate about your person for rescues and emergencies - then why not have two for gear loops, one on each side that you can clip your cows tails etc to when not in use.

When you buy your krabs - just take a second and look at the nose profile of the krab and see how easy it would be to whip in and out of hangers. 'hooked' profiles can be awkward when you are trying to unlip out of a crowded hanger.

 

[Stu]

Agree about nose profile. Can't remeber what they are (maybe Faders) but do try to get "clean" free from hooked type design.

Snap links are for losers and Eldon weirdos anyway.... :argue: :guns:



:twisted:

 

[SamT]

Yeah right - weirdo's who don't get knackered or waste time pissing about with fiddly screwgates on thier cows tails. Take two krabs into the shower - I just unclip and go.

:twak:

 

[Cave_Troll]

i must admit that i accidently ended up weith screw gates on my cows tails.
I turned up for a trip and had no snaps on me so i had to put on two screws. they kinda stayed as i thought "well why not, don't know it till you try it".
I tried it for a while. what broke the cammels back was when i went to france for a caving holiday. trying to do a semi hanging traverse.
"Swing, reach and Crrtttt, arse the gates screwed up and i can't clip the crab in (swing back - arse)"

 

[paul]

In normal situations it is better for costails to use snaplinks as they are intended to be clipped in and out again fairly quickly to save time.

In certain situations, e.g., clipping to a 'P' bolt directly with some slack in the cowstail, it is possible for a snaplink to unclip itself (as illustrated in some or all of the Yorkshire rigging guides - I have demonstrated to others that this can happen, too).

Personaly I use a snaplink for the short cowstail but a screwgate on th e long one. I leave the screw alone and use it like a snaplink unless I think it may be safer to screw it up - such as if clipped in a situation where I am moving about excessively, for example when hauling at the top of a pitch.

The srew portion of a screwgate weighs practically nothing, can be left undone most of the time but is available when extra security is needed.

I have use twistlocks when rock climbing but gave that up when lowering over a sharply-defined gritstone edge cause the gate connecting my descender to my harness come undone and left me dangling, hooked on by the nose of the twistlock on the rock :shock: ... I would imaging the muddy, gritty conditions underground would cauase problem with them, too.

 

[Dave H]

I have screw gates on my cowstails.
I normally use them as snap links for traverse lines etc., but I do like to screw them up when I'm moving about a lot at the pitch head, for instance when putting in extra bolts, or when lifelining ladder climbers. I just like the idea that they are not going to undo themselves while I'm not concentrating on them. (as Paul stated, they can undo)

 

[Brendan]

I use wiregate snapgates on my cowstails. They are great - easy to use, and don't clog up even in the most muddy cave imaginable. (e.g. Robin's shaft after a diging session).
They are also always unlocked - so you don't find you need to unscrew your screwgate at one of those 'oh sh*t, I really want to be attached to something RIGHT NOW' moments.

 

[Stu]

Yeah right - weirdo's who don't get knackered or waste time pissing about with fiddly screwgates on thier cows tails. Take two krabs into the shower - I just unclip and go.

:twak:

oke: twak!! hadn't seen that one before. It must be just possible to reply to a thread using only emoticons!

 

[Getwet]

Is there any reason , appart from peace of mind, Why snap gates should not be used to on P hangers at the pitch head ???

 

[dunc]

Is there any reason , appart from peace of mind, Why snap gates should not be used to on P hangers at the pitch head ???

CNCC Tech group website shows one reason you should be aware of when using them at pitch heads.

As long as you are aware of what you're doing/what your gear is doing then snaps are fine (I personally wouldn't use anything else).

 

[GSR]

for me screw gates on cowstails - the risk of a snap-gate undoing itself when you're moving about and you're clipped into a bolt near the floor is impossible to ignore, especially after i found myself attached only by the short cowstail as i prepared to descend the first pitch somewhere in yorkshire.
i think it was dave elliot who said to me once "snap gates are fine on cowstails if you don't want to live" - i wouldn't go that far but with snapgates you do have to be just that little more observant at the pitch head.

 

[Cave_Troll]

i too favour wire gates. one of my favourite stories is of having one of the first wire gates in the country (BD Hotwire).
showed it to a CIC and said "it won't get clugged up with mud" brought the response "why is your SRT kit getting muddy?"

i found that my screw gates tended to screw themselves up as dangling from my harness they were the right way round for gravity and joggling to have the correct effect.

 

[Pinch]

Many Thanks Everyone :up:

Have yourselves a beer on me..

 

[diggerdog adam]

i always use snap gates and have got wire gates on my spare srt kit the wire ones are a pleasure to use if you can get your head around how thin and flimsy they look (mind over matter)+ I always try and have a spare screwgate so i suppose this could be used if needed but as yet i have had no need

In my veiw, even if a loaded cows tail krab was to open agaist a rock gravity should hold it tight on to the hanger

 

[Stu]

i too favour wire gates. one of my favourite stories is of having one of the first wire gates in the country (BD Hotwire).
showed it to a CIC and said "it won't get clugged up with mud" brought the response "why is your SRT kit getting muddy?"

i found that my screw gates tended to screw themselves up as dangling from my harness they were the right way round for gravity and joggling to have the correct effect.

The same CIC? You don't like instructors, do you?

 

[Cave_Troll]

I like _some_ instructors