survival kit

[Trog]

We seem to have strayed off topic a little, but I feel a discussion on emergency kit coming on. What do you take with you on a trip underground? Do you take the travel light and hope for the best approach, or perhaps take everything including the kitchen sink? Does carrying loads of gear mean that you're more likely to need it? Perhaps carbide isn't that bad after all!

What do you think?

 

[caving_fox]

Yes carrying more gear does make you more likely to need it. Try taking some extra weight on a trip, and then repeating it without it.! The difference in energy levels required to pass obsticles late in the day is quite notable

But neither is the take nothing approach good either.

Each trip should be assessed on it's merits and appropriate gear taken:

Personally every (even hr long poddles in tourist caves) trip has:
survival bag taped inside helmet,
Chocolate and drink in helmet / pocket
Spare light in pocket.

This very bare minimum gives some support whilst waiting for CRO without encumbering manovement.

 

[wormster]

Emergency Kit:

Spare light,
1st aid kit (2 tampons 'N 10' of gaffer tape)
Bivvy bag/survival blanket,
Munchies,
Compass 'n Whistle.

Oh YES and a sense of humor 

 

[cap n chris]

http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,3237.0.html
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,1369.0.html
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,4322.0.html

 

[ian.p]

i take a survival bag with a bandage wraped round it and a couple of plasters inside a couple of freezer bags all bound with gaffer tape all of which fits inside a helmet cradle and is nice and squidgie. thus you have:
2 times plasters
1 times large bandige for serios bleeds / sprains
1 times survival bag
2 times water proof non absorbant non stick dresings
and plenty of gaffa tape.
all of which can quite hapily live perminantly in the helmet.

 

[slippery_matt]

Doesn't having stuff in your helmet reduce the 'crush zone' if rocks / somesuch were to fall on your helmet?

I generally carry my survival bag in my helmet as it doesn't fit in my oversuit pocket, but does this reduce the effectiveness of the helmet in protecting against falling objects?

Would be a tad ironic if your survival kit ended up killing you!

 

[mak]

Yes putting things inside your helmet reduces its effectiveness.

The gap between the cradle and the helmet is there for a reason - even "soft squishy" things act differently under shock loading and can easily transfer a shock wave.

The presence of items in the helmet may not matter when bashing your head against the roof, but will certainly reduce effectiveness against the shock created by a falling rock

 

[Dave H]

First aid kit in a good size BDH
Also in BDH
. Spare batteries for lamps
. Chemical light stick
. Swiss army knife
. Compass
. Watch (minus strap)
. Casualty card and pen

Large survival bag
50' dynamic rope
5 tapes of varying lengths (longest 2 are each long enough to improvise a sit harness)
Grigri
Couple of pulleys
Traxion
Half a dozen alloy crabs
All in a slim tackle sack

I figure I can deal with most smallish emergencies with this: small fall, unable to climb pitch, etc.
And I carry it all the time except when I'm leading scouts - then I give it to the gobby Scout to carry! (there's always one)

When I write it all down it does sound like a lot, but it isn't normally a hindrance
(And I've just noticed that there is no food in there)

 

[seddon]

I guess that this is a group safety sack, Mr H? Do your colleagues rely on you carrying this kit when you're caving, or do they all carry similar or complementary items?  And, last question, how do you find this when you're doing srt trips with rope bags?

My contribution to this discussion would be:

1. decide what the requirements of the trip are

2. decide what you can't improvise or easily borrow in the cave**

3. carry what you need having considered 1 & 2

I'm surprised that no one has said much about drugs (!). You can improvise a sling, or a wound dressing; but if someone slices their palm on a sharp flake, for instance, you can't improvise pain relief...

**my basic list of non-improvisables - appropriate protection from the environment if immobilised, analgesics, ability to cut, fast, materials such as rope or clothing

Anyone want to rant about the number of spare lights you need per team?

 

[Smithers]

As a student cave we're meant to carry lost of survival equipment with us when we go underground in case of emergencies, and when officially caving as a club we do take all the necessary precautions.  However, when I go caving with a few people from the club in an unofficial capacity my survival gear just includes:

4-6x Cadbury's Brunch Bars (wrapped up in a ziplock back in my helmet)
2x Screwgate krabs
1x Tiblock and big krab
1x Survival bag
1x Spare torch (1 watt LED Princeton Tech jobby)
1x 2m sling
1x Petzl Spatha

Yes it's probably overkill on the chocolate front, but I've had to wait hours undergroudn for rescue before and having plenty of food makes life a little nicer, plus I usually end up sharing it out anyway, honest!

 

[docfunk]

I always have crushed and melted marsbars and snickers and a plastic survival bag with me,and I wish Smithers would swap those horrible Brunch Bars for something I like  :tease:

 

[Geoff R]

What happened to the idea of a personal survival bag each complimented with candle and lighter  :-\

(the old hot air balloon principle of avoiding hypothermia)

 

[kay]

(the old hot air balloon principle of avoiding hypothermia)

Hovering a few inches clear of the cold ground? 

 

[marmite monster]

If you use one of these survival bags then you don't need  a candle for heat. http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/section.php/3/ The bag is a lot tougher than the thin see through plastic type, and can be reused. It is not much larger/heavier and outperforms the "classic" style bags. I have tried using this bag underground and it is very warm. 

 

[Dave H]

I guess that this is a group safety sack, Mr H? Do your colleagues rely on you carrying this kit when you're caving, or do they all carry similar or complementary items?  And, last question, how do you find this when you're doing srt trips with rope bags?

Yup, group gear. At least three of us have similar bags, but we only carry one on each trip.

Everyone has chocolate and a (gaffer tape and tampons) first aid kit.
With the advent of the newer helmets with less space between head and helmet, I'm seeing a lot of people slide their survival bag inside their welly.

When on SRT trips it's either slipped in a large bag carry the rope for the bottom pitch, or just carried as another bag.

 

[Chris J]

4-6x Cadbury's Brunch Bars (wrapped up in a ziplock back in my helmet)

Related to the other thread in this section about putting stuff in your helmet - people might debate whether a survival bag will do you damage but chocolate bars are def a bad idea - especially 4-6 of them! I've heard of miners being killed because they had a pack of fags in their helmet!

 

[seddon]

Chris - that's because their lungs were knackered and they couldn't run away fast enough when the roof came down...

 

[SamT]

most likely - it was the *lighter* in the pack of fags that killed em.  That and the 19 tons of roof.

 

[Chris J]

How hard do you rekon a cold Mars bar is?

I'd say it's pretty solid!!

 

[Charlie]

How hard do you rekon a cold Mars bar is?

I'd say it's pretty solid!!

Or a snickers with its peanut reinforcing?