Swildon's Hole, graffiti vandalism, Friday 23rd February 2007

[cap n chris]

Marvellous.  :kiss2:

 

[ditzy 24//7]

 

[graham]

is there a difference between Swildons drawings and Loxton cave  drawings  :-\

yes.

 

[darkplaces]

:ang: Video for your edification
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7079651635642890060&hl=en-GB

 

[Stupot]

Quote "Ooooh it's cold" - You girl 

Seriously though good job DP and Menacer.

What type of video system was that you had rigged up on the helment DP ?

Stu.

 

[Walrus]

Very good! 

Nice to see you've got the camera waterproofed too - nice video; nice job all round - impressive on all fronts!

 

[anfieldman]

Marvellous job! Well done to the both of you. Not since Debbie does Dallas have I seen such a brilliant piece of knob polishing!



Seriously, thats fab.

 

[darkplaces]

What type of video system was that you had rigged up on the helment DP ?
Stu.

Archos 504 - http://www.archos.com/products/video/archos_504/index.html?country=global&lang=en
Archos Spefic Headcam - http://www.archos.com/products/video_recording/camcorder.html?country=global&lang=en

The combo isnt 100% waterproof but I packed the recorder in a foam enclosure inside a drybag which slips into a webbing water bottle. The headcam cable controls and MIC was crudely waterproofed with transparent plastic and duct tape. The bullet type camera was wrapped with foam and covered in more duct tape, Ideally I will put some heat shrink over this. I would like to find some transparent heat shrink for the cable controls.

"Oooo its cold" Oh I was just acting for the camera

 

[cap n chris]

Very good job; had a closer look at it today and "it's like it was never there!". Thanks for your thoughtful efforts to sort this problem out. 

 

[Wolfart]

Damn good job done.
Bring the film to Hidden Earth
Again THREE BIG CHEERS

 

[cap n chris]

Bring the film to Hidden Earth

It's too good for that.

 

[paul]

I know and understand that cavers are totally against restrictions to access.

Really? News to me.

I thought conservation-minded cavers understood the absolute necessity of gates. The present situation at Swildon's is the price you/we pay for unfettered access.... stuff gets broken/nicked/spraypainted/shat on.

Understanding necessity does not mean not being against restrictions to access.

I repeat: cavers are totally against restrictions to access. Nobody wants restriction to access (except possibly show cave owners!). It is more of a necessary evil and accepted on conservation grounds and also in some cases, conditions of access by the landowner.

In a perfect world where nobody vandalised caves and landowners (or often, their solicitors) were worried about possible liability there would be no need for restrictions to access.

 

[paul]

:ang: Video for your edification
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=7079651635642890060&hl=en-GB

Well done, DP.

 

[paul]

Surely this is the work of schoolboys.

It strikes me as the sort of graffiti a schoolboy would do. Perhaps the CSCC should have a word with schools that run trips into such places.

Apparently an 'eminent' localish well known school are known to visit quite frequently.

Well the same schoolboys must have had a trip down Knotlow Cavern Climbing Shaft in Derbyshire recently.

Because of intermittent reports of bad air in parts of the Knotlow/Hillocks System, a log book has been placed in an ammo box at the foot of the 15m entrance shaft.

Last weekend I found some bright spark had scrawled a similar drawing in the log book to add to the useful information - so I removed it and threw it away.

I would be very surprised if the culprits were not cavers.

 

[truescrumpy]

Well done c**tplaces and Co.
One thing that always buggers me, even though it was wrong to do graffiti in the cave... why all the debate and fuss and who the hell do we think are in being Lord Judge and Jury, when there are graffiti in other caves like Loxton for example and saying ohh is this nice and was done all these years ago... And to the final point as something thats bugger me for a long time, we cavers are no better as we do digging through passages, removing rocks and mud that was put there by nature, to satisfied our lust.  Are we any better ? :-\

 

[graham]

Are we any better?

Well, if you read Paul's post, not all of us are.

However, there is a logic to current conservation practice which can both revile what was done in Swildons and accept those things from long ago in Loxton. It cannot be explained in detail in one post on here, so just consider why you think people react differently to those things.

 

[cap n chris]

To summarise:

Is today's landfill tomorrow's archaeology?

If no - why not? and...

If yes - why the uproar over dumping rubbish?

 

[andymorgan]

Sorry DP I was being mischievous in my earlier post. Well done to you and Menacer for cleaning it up 

I had a trip earlier today (in the USA) and there was some graffiti in the cave: for example a large arrow and out written in bright orange spray paint, even though one had to simply follow the water out at this point.

It seems caves aren't really gated here in the USA, but cavers prefer not to publicise the whereabouts of caves so there are few guide books. I suppose if people don't know about a cave then they don't know what they are missing. However I think the system in Britain with gates is a bit friendlier: you may have to jump through a few hoops to get a key, but at least all references to the cave aren't kept to a select few.