The Black Dog - mental health awareness

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
I suspect the human being is quite a fragile entity in reality despite lots of bravado to the contrary.  So many pressures in life to fit in, work hard, look great, be funny, achieve something etc.  Good to see people being open and on a public forum too.  That can only be a good thing.

Blue Monday has now passed on the other thread that prompted the OP.  It wasn't to everyone's taste.
 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
Cavers may argue and bicker and grump, however we are all part of the caving community and I hope that belonging helps everyone with their mental health.  Give a caving friend a call today and say hello  :)

Hugs and love to you all, Pegasus  :hug:
 

royfellows

Well-known member
I would like to make a contribution to this thread.

First, and I am sorry if this sounds patronising, but have to say that Peter Hall talks just so much sense on every possible subject. I now look out for your posts Peter. Enough said on that.

I would now like to relate my own experience. Again apologies if it sounds daft, or heart on my sleeve or whatever.

2010 was the worst year of my life. I was quite ill in a way I didn't really want to go into detail, but I will.
I had appalling eczema all over my body. It was weeping body fluid to the extent that I was permanently dehydrated and had to (try, I had little strength) to make up a 'special' bed each night of old cotton sheets, quite thick, to soak up what came out of me. I could not stand still as it affected my legs, a degree of comfort was attainable by lying flat with my legs raised slightly. My neighbour commented that in July when the weather was warm I would sit on a wall in the garden and never move for hours at a time and he wandered if I was alive.
I had no strength to do anything, no one to help, I live on my own, the wife died of cancer in 1998, and yet I had to somehow attempt to wash clothes and keep myself clean.

I had to go out to get shopping, at Sainsbury's Cannock, and I do have to say that the staff there were extremely kind and helpful. I looked like something out of "The Exorcist"
I do have a soft spot for the ladies there who were so kind.

I came out of this period, more or less, I still have a bit of it on my head but its nothing, and felt optimistic, but when I resumed my outdoor activities found that I could not do very much due to problems with my legs.

This threw me into an acute depression where I could see everything coming to an end.
This is when it gets totally weird.

I was lying on my bed with my past life going through my brain. I thought of the successful digging up at Nenthead and other projects, all no more. I thought of the days long gone when i actually used to do karate. I was doing it from 1964 up until 1979 when the club I was at closed down.

I thought to myself "You will never see those days again"
Then something really odd, I heard a voice, not a real one, but it sought of came into my mind from somewhere outside it.
It said "It doesn't have to be like that"

I thought to myself, whats this!
that's what it was like
Then , something I will never understand, it was like a something exploded in my head, or maybe a shock, and at that point my life changed.

I got off the bed and tried a karate punch, it hut my arm, but it was just the start.

I went up the Nenthead a while after and my friends, mainly from SCMC, were all there. I was asked by one to try to explain myself by one. he said that he knew it was me, Roy, but I was a different person.
All I could think of to say, was to ask if I was still a nice person, because that was what really mattered.

After some Internet research I now know that what happened is called "Sudden personality change" It can be caused by a variety of things, drugs, alcohol abuse, illness or depression. So the last sits well with it. Its usually negative, but with me its positive, at least I think so.
In truth at 76 i can do some amazing things, its difficult to get a handle on some of it.

At the time of the 'change' I thought I had gone mad. But one thing about that 'voice' or whatever it was, it certainly didn't bloody lie.

The way I see things now, life is like a long corridor with rooms going off. The doors to some rooms are locked so I have to stay out, but others are open and I can enjoy whatever is in the room. As doors become locked, others will open, but I need to constantly be on the lookout for them as they can sometimes be missed.

Well there we are. This appears to be a honest thread so I have taken the bold step of telling all this. I doubt anyone will laugh at me, but if you must, please do it off forum.




 

Pegasus

Administrator
Staff member
royfellows said:
The way I see things now, life is like a long corridor with rooms going off. The doors to some rooms are locked so I have to stay out, but others are open and I can enjoy whatever is in the room. As doors become locked, others will open, but I need to constantly be on the lookout for them as they can sometimes be missed.

Well there we are. This appears to be a honest thread so I have taken the bold step of telling all this. I doubt anyone will laugh at me, but if you must, please do it off forum.

Laugh?? Blimey no, will admit to a little tear reading this  :)  :hug:
 

ZombieCake

Well-known member
Reminds me of someone, let's call them 'UndeadScone' for arguments sake, who hasn't always been the most cheerful person in the world in the past.  Not necessarily the nicest place to be, and it does remind one of a quote from a film, namely, "Can't rain all the time."
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
Has anybody else noticed how the use of metaphors has gone through the roof in this pandemic (oops used one there). Government spokesmen seemed to have gone out of their way to out vie  each other when making announcements about the way things are going. No caving metaphors yet. Anybody got one for Chris Witty or Boris Johnson to use. Answers on a (large) postcard please.
 

Brains

Well-known member
I have been (mostly) on and off (rarely) tablets most of my adult life.
Some outside influences have helped and hindered - marriage, kids, divorce, animals, remarriage and helping loved ones through hard times.
I am still here and looking forward to an ever growing list of caving trips (Obsessed did I hear you say?), together with a returning interest in geology that I studied many moons ago. New friends in the real world and on line have been a benefit over the years, together with a much better appreciation for MH issues, including some immediate action techniques.
It is so reassuring to know others know and understand, if not my issues then more in general.

Particularly useful actions for a bad time could be a cold thermal shock - hands under the cold tap, stand in the garden in a T shirt, open the car windows with the heating off. The cold seems to reset the mood regulator within. Distraction is useful, and going for a walk, being thoughtful of the little things - bird song, water droplets, sound of the wind, rumble of lorries, watching the clouds. The hardest but most effective is to reach out to someone...
 

Ian P

Administrator
Staff member
I am extremely lucky to not have suffered In this way.

However this is an extremely thoughtful thread.

A simple ?Like? on some of these posts would seem inappropriate.

Can I just say ?hats off? to you all, some moving and sobering posts, you all have my admiration.

Make no doubt, your comments WILL help others.

Thank you.
Ian
 

Fishes

New member
The black dog has been a companion for most of my life. Caving and other cavers have helped me keep afloat through some of the most difficult times.

My employers are currently running mental health awareness training which I am very wary of as I think I have gone mostly under the radar and prefer to stay that way. I'm sure the company thinks it is doing the right thing but I'm thankful it has been delayed due to Covid restrictions.

Two managers and one technician have had serious breakdowns at the main site where  I work at over the last five years. Two of them had the same job and the third person worked in the same department. All of them have now left the company. A fourth employee at another site was also forced to leave in similar circumstances.

I won't be putting my hand up and saying me too in the workplace any time soon.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
I think this is one of the nicest non caving threads that there has been on here.

As I have said on another thread somewhere, I thrive on challenges, its what keeps me going.
Any older people on here remember a TV program of many years ago "The Braden Beat", hosted by a Bernard Braden?
They had a karate expert, probably the best the world has ever seen, but we dont use the word "expert".
Anyway it was Hirokazu Kanazawa, possibly the best karateka the world has seen.

I trained with him many ears ago, also Senseis Enoeda and Takahashi. Well I am scheduled to be taking advanced karate classes at a club in Wolverhampton as soon as this lot is over, and if anyone had told me I would be doing that at 76 back in 2010 I would have really thought them mad.

So there you are, you never know what the future holds, good or bad.
 

AR

Well-known member
Another important thing about this thread is flagging up just how prevalent mental health issues actually are, and how important it is to talk about it and not bottle it up. I made that mistake in the past, and 2016 was a pretty hellish year for me with depression - it took a car accident late on in the year to jolt me into going to the doctors about it but before then, there were too many days walking into work wondering if I'd be leaving the office in handcuffs or a body bag, depending on whether rage or despair won out. Serotonin boosters, a month signed off and a change of job pulled me back to being able to function and I've learned to watch out for the start of the downward spirals and catch them before they take off; there was a good article I read online the other day (but can't find the link in my browsing history) about changing your inner dialogue to move away from destructive self-criticism - if I can find it again I'll post it up here.
 

SamT

Moderator
So glad folks have engaged with this topic has I hoped they would.  Just knowing there are others out there who have suffered as you have/are, can help take the edge off things.

Is Ian says, "Hats off" to you all for being brave and posting here.  You'll be helping others, if not yourselves.
 

Blueberry

Member
It is very interesting the general public?s perception of mental illness. And also, ours.
It is something that cannot be seen. A broken leg, Covid, cut arm etc physical ailments. Physical unwellness can be seen.
Mental illness is hidden, you do not know if I am depressed, having suicidal thoughts, paranoid etc. Unless I tell you, but I might be afraid to speak. Your perception of me may change. 
Also, the use of language is interesting.
I have a broken arm, my arm is broken, we do not say ?I am a broken arm?.
But we do say.
?I am anorexic?, ?I am a depressive?.  A mental illness is not you; it is something that is affecting you.
 

Duncan Price

Active member
Fishes said:
My employers are currently running mental health awareness training which I am very wary of as I think I have gone mostly under the radar and prefer to stay that way.

My employer has a team of trained mental health first aiders (I am one of them).  Most of the managers will have also received some basic training.  The mental health first aiders are there to support colleagues and point them in appropriate directions for help.  We're not counsellors, everything is confidential and nothing is shared.  The team get together once a month to chat in very general terms about issues in case there are common factors which might need to be addressed on a company level (e.g. the isolation of working from home).  It sounds like there might be cultural factors in your workplace causing mental health problems for the workforce that need dealing with.

Like you, I was extremely skeptical at first and only did the training for selfish reasons.  I'm now coming around to the idea that its a GOOD THING.

I respect your desire to keep yourself to yourself at work - its a difficult call.
 

Blueberry

Member
Duncan Price said:
The late "Fish" Jeanmaire and I had many long chats about mental health and cave diving - he tried to encourage me to write something for the CDG Newsletter but I've always felt uneasy about "coming out" to the general caving community.  Fish passed away in 2015 so this post is a bit overdue - it took a long time to write given its brevity.

Forgive the approach Duncan, I have read your book. Your editorship of other books and indexes and the attention to detail is marvelous. In the words of the late "Fish" Jeanmarie, write the book. People may contribute chapters or stories. I do believe it is the 75th Anniversary of the CDG this year. What a great addition to it's knowledge base that would be.
 

droid

Active member
I won't bore you with my story, but a couple of observations

Don't think that just because someone appears confident and self possessed they don't suffer depression. Depressives can be very good at hiding it.

And don't neccessarily believe someone that says they don't suffer from depression. The tendency to deny suffering is quite common in my experience.
 

Gerbil007

Member
Can anyone relate to near constant suicidal thoughts? Incessant enough to start wondering if maybe its not a bad plan? I'm there now. Lost my Dad in 2019. Motivation (which had previously been driving me to do some pretty good stuff) quickly ebbed away thereafter and the hysteria surrounding covid now makes me wonder whether I really want to be a part of this shitshow anymore. I have a 6 year old boy and a baby due in July. The thought of how it would affect my boy is holding me back for now.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
I don't wish to come across too much like a blunt man (which I am), but I would think raising children would be the best possible thing you could be doing right now, especially after losing your dad. New life is the best thing ever, and if you can do it, then do it. The hysteria will fade, and reality will kick in eventually, and we'll all learn to adapt, reform, and improve - it always happens - it's only a shitshow at the moment. So please try not to think about suicide - it won't just affect your immediate family, but everyone beyond that - it has a ripple effect, and will just add damage. I've had more than one friend do it, one an ex-girlfriend, and I'm still trying to work out what I could have done differently to prevent it, fifteen years later. Bringing up your kids to appreciate the wonder of life is a far, far better outcome, and if it seems insurmountable at the moment, ask friends for help, if it's possible. Ask strangers for help if it's not possible - well, you have.

Don't give up ;)
 

Duck ditch

New member
Hi Gerbil007. 
I made a reasonable attempt at suicide on my 21st birthday.  So glad I failed. 
Focus on one day at a time. Go for a walk, paint, write, sing, mend furniture (that?s what my brother did). Writing did it for me.  What was the pretty good stuff you were doing before? Talk it out with someone if you can.
Like pw said, it?s only a shitshow at the moment.  Don?t give up.
 
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